Delta TA on SCOPE

[waveflyer]

Why do you obsess so much about this? You don't work for DAL and your company has no RJs. What the hell do you care? Do you have anything else to do in life? Get a hobby or something.....

You really think what delta does affects no one else?
Every pilot ought to care

 

[waveflyer]

Again PCL- treat me like a 3rd grader

How does this TA improve scope?

 

[aircombat]

Again PCL- treat me like a 3rd grader

How does this TA improve scope?

It's what ALPA does. If their argument doesn't hold water they revert to intimidation tactics.

It only works because pilots don't learn from the past. His attempt to burn you sounds so familiar. I remember when it was said they aren't CRJ 200s they are CRJ 200s with 40 seats.

We will all be one more Delta bankruptcy away from were we are now, or far worse.

This time around they better not ask for a Jets for Jobs deal because if we aren't good enough to be on the bottom of their seniority list they aren't good enough to be on the bottom of ours.

 

[waveflyer]

And mgmt plays the pilot ego better than any symphony

 

[Turtle21]

Pilot groups facilitated the outsourcing. ALPA is just a collection of resources.

ALPA takes dues money with both hands but never saw any responsibility they were willing to take with a ten foot pole, yet sycophants are willing to blame individual pilot groups and sing ALPA's praise despite the never ending downward spiral ALPA created with their brilliant pattern bargaining strategy.

Resources... Like overpriced ShamWow rags! :lol:

 

[Turtle21]

....Clearly, the line in the sand has been drawn at 76 seats..


.

Clearly the operative phrase in that sentence is "in the sand". :lol: I mean let's be real, you are talking about ALPA (forgive me, as you would say "individual pilot groups").

 

[PCL_128]

I don't see why it's so unreasonable. negotiate a rate for 76 seaters that is an average, or even well below average, of what the current DCI rate is for those aircraft. What ever it takes to get the aircraft on your property and give you the ability to negotiate better rates on the next contract.

I know pilots all think that the world revolves around them, but reality is quite different. Your pay rate is a tiny portion of the overall pie. What makes the regionals so cheap isn't just pilot pay rates, it's also benefits plans, corporate overhead, rampers, flight attendants, mechanics, customer service, etc. It is impossible for you to do the flying at mainline for as cheap as the regionals do it. Therefore, the only way to reign scope back in is to do it gradually at every legacy carrier until there is no outsourcing, leaving management without the problem of having to compete with other airlines that are able to outsource. If just one airline were to stop the outsourcing while the others did not, then they would be at a horrible competitive disadvantage.

 

[PCL_128]

Again PCL- treat me like a 3rd grader

How does this TA improve scope?

Wave, read this point paper written by a Delta pilot: http://dalforums.alpa.org/Portals/3/activeforums_Attach/TA_Point_Paper.pdf

It gives a great summary of the scope improvements, as well as the other TA improvements. And it's written by a rank and file pilot, so you can't call it ALPA propaganda.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah- the gradual part would be the -900's. start there.

Why wait for a bigger airplane? 76 seaters have only been outsourced at delta for 5 years. And GL and the delta crowd here claim that the 2007 arrival of -900's were remnants of the bankruptcy deal. IMSO, If you sign this TA while profitable, you validate a deal that was signed under the duress of Bankruptcy and make it harder for AA and Unical to hold their lines.

It's much more significant than tightening up restrictions on deltas 50's.

Delta is extremely influential- what they do gives permission. Please don't ignore your leadership responsibilities.

 

[waveflyer]

Wave, read this point paper written by a Delta pilot: http://dalforums.alpa.org/Portals/3/activeforums_Attach/TA_Point_Paper.pdf

It gives a great summary of the scope improvements, as well as the other TA improvements. And it's written by a rank and file pilot, so you can't call it ALPA propaganda.

I wil do that-

But memorial day is calling a day early-

I will be taking a much needed break from just about everything but scotch!

Good weekend all-

DALPA members, I don't mean to be inciteful and inflammatory- just please THINK long term about the ramifications of validating outsourced -900's.
The industry has had to work against DALPA for far too long. You can live up to your history, only if you don't live up to your recent history.

 

[PCL_128]

I will be taking a much needed break from just about everything but scotch!

I have to work, so have a drink for me!

 

[Speedtape]

The coming pilot shortage will eliminate the scope issues. Why waste negotiating capital to only chip the tip of the iceberg?

 

[xjhawk]

pilot shortage? But yet some still furlough? But yet most are still not hiring. There are tens of thousands of regional pilots lining up for the chance to get a job at the majors. There will not be a shortage at the majors-where it matters. There will be a death sentence for the regionals that do not have the ability to attract new pilots to fly the smaller airplanes. What will it take? A well managed company with decent, livable work rules. A livable wage. And so many, attractive pilot bases. I am sure the ones with steady flows to a mainline partner will be successful at attracting pilots as that would mean quicker upgrades and more pay.

 

[General Lee]

88 717s equals 1100 new jobs at Delta. Then throw in 25 MD90s. New, more productive reserve rules will equal 250 less jobs, but then add 200-300 early outs from an early out program associated with this TA. That early out program can give 39 weeks of pay, plus $120,000 into a medical account. Many wide body Captains (mainly fNWA pilots with their pensions intact) would probably take that. Them throw in thousands of pilots leaving in the next 5-10 years, and that means hiring.

Age 65 hurt everyone except the very senior, but they will be leaving soon. We can all complain about that forever, or just move on. The other legacies also have huge numbers leaving in the next 5-10 years, so current RJ pilots will have plenty of choices. And RJs will also stick around because some routes can't handle a 717 or larger. There you go, choices. The only guys without choices are the junior SWA pilots. Big stagnation and reserve for a decade are left for them after their merger, including a $8K bill for a 737 type. I bet many will be looking to escape when the legacies open up, especially for better QOL. So, if you have an extra $8K to burn and want to be on reserve for a decade, then you have another choice available in the next few years: SWA.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

Age 65 hurt everyone except the very senior, but they will be leaving soon.

They've been leaving for years, yet, they're still here.

 

[Scoot 11]

They've been leaving for years, yet, they're still here.

That's exactly right. Want to know when they'll. Leave? When they have to, at age 65!

 

[xray678]

88 717s equals 1100 new jobs at Delta. Then throw in 25 MD90s. New, more productive reserve rules will equal 250 less jobs, but then add 200-300 early outs from an early out program associated with this TA. That early out program can give 39 weeks of pay, plus $120,000 into a medical account. Many wide body Captains (mainly fNWA pilots with their pensions intact) would probably take that. Them throw in thousands of pilots leaving in the next 5-10 years, and that means hiring.

Do you think it will get too 200-300 before it is cut off due to staffing issues?

 

[lakemead1]

I think it depends where a majority of the early outs come from. If it is pretty evenly spread out amongst all categories then I think it will get to 300 guys. But if the majority comes from only one or two I.e. 744 and 777 then it may only get a hundred or so before they cut it off. Just a guess though.

 

[RJ Bum]

The coming pilot shortage will eliminate the scope issues. Why waste negotiating capital to only chip the tip of the iceberg?

Wow, I hope to hell you're being sacastic...

 

[Flybywire44]

Gennerall Lee and Speed Tape,

You both must understand regionalism is here to stay unless we kill it now when we have negotiating leverage. Delta is at a tipping point with spiking costs of an aging 50 seat fleet don't give DAL an out.

Otherwise, DAL, UAL and AMR will establish Ab Initio Programs for their regionals—they won't let their investments die.

If you want to stop puppy pilot regional farms than do so now. The 717s are needed to replace DC9s, they're not all growth. If Delta needs the airframes than they will get them regardless how DALPA votes on this TA.