Delta TA on SCOPE

[waveflyer]

And why is "achieving" 70 more outsourced -900's, the only reasonable outcome?

 

[PCL_128]

And why is "achieving" 70 more outsourced -900's, the only reasonable outcome?

First, you should stop with the ridiculous "-900s" line. The CBA doesn't reference -900s, it references 76-seat aircraft. A CRJ-900 in a normal configuration is not a 76-seat aircraft. Delta has to remove seats to get it down to 76-seats.

As for why this TA is reasonable, that has been explained numerous times by numerous posters. You just choose to ignore it and continue your rants.

 

[waveflyer]

And add first class seats...
I'm pretty sure Canadair isn't releasing delta from 50 seat RJs so they can purchase 175's-
The TA is about delta outsourcing -900's- is that not accurate?

 

[PCL_128]

And add first class seats...

I don't care how big the seat is, only one passenger can sit in it. It's a 76-seat issue, not a CRJ-900 issue. You want to keep referring to -900s because you think it makes it sound like bigger airplanes, but in reality, these are the same size airplanes that Delta and the other legacies have already been outsourcing for years.

I'm pretty sure Canadair isn't releasing delta from 50 seat RJs so they can purchase 175's-

A deal doesn't necessarily have to be with Canadair. It probably would be, but not necessarily. Embraer has made airlines offers in the past to take other manufacturer's airplanes in exchange for purchasing Embraer products. Embraer would then sell or lease the original airplanes to third party customers. They made such an offer to AirTran, in fact. Two EMB-190s for each B717.

The TA is about delta outsourcing -900's- is that not accurate?

No, the TA is about a great many things, including 20% pay raises and an improved DC plan. The scope clause is only a small part of it. And it doesn't specify any particular airplane, it only provides seat and airframe limits.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I don't care how big the seat is, only one passenger can sit in it. It's a 76-seat issue, not a CRJ-900 issue. You want to keep referring to -900s because you think it makes it sound like bigger airplanes, but in reality, these are the same size airplanes that Delta and the other legacies have already been outsourcing for years.



A deal doesn't necessarily have to be with Canadair. It probably would be, but not necessarily. Embraer has made airlines offers in the past to take other manufacturer's airplanes in exchange for purchasing Embraer products. Embraer would then sell or lease the original airplanes to third party customers. They made such an offer to AirTran, in fact. Two EMB-190s for each B717.



No, the TA is about a great many things, including 20% pay raises and an improved DC plan. The scope clause is only a small part of it. And it doesn't specify any particular airplane, it only provides seat and airframe limits.

The addition of more 76 seaters was a bad deal. The 50 seaters would have been going away anyways. We continue to be the industry leader in selling scope. I voted NO and don't appreciate all of the ALPA cheerleading. Should have been Delta pilots in those jets. Rant over.

 

[PCL_128]

Should have been Delta pilots in those jets. Rant over.

You have the same problem as waveflyer. You keep focusing on what should happen instead of what is actually possible. The NMB wasn't going to give you any help in this area. In fact, they were going to get pissed off if you kept pushing the issue, and they would park negotiations and leave you in limbo indefinitely. Pilots need to get educated on how this process works and what the NMB expects. It's not as simple as making demands and refusing to budge. You have a third party mediator to deal with who holds all of the cards.

 

[Flyer1015]

You have the same problem as waveflyer. You keep focusing on what should happen instead of what is actually possible. The NMB wasn't going to give you any help in this area. In fact, they were going to get pissed off if you kept pushing the issue, and they would park negotiations and leave you in limbo indefinitely. Pilots need to get educated on how this process works and what the NMB expects. It's not as simple as making demands and refusing to budge. You have a third party mediator to deal with who holds all of the cards.

Didnt't think I'd agree with PCL_128, but yeah, that. ^

I've been at an airline where a TA was turned down, the NMB thought it was a decent offer, and then parked us and put negotiations in limbo for 2 years until a merger happened.

Given the current economic conditions, weakened economy, financial world crisis, the offer seemed good. People are hung up over 70 more 76 seaters, but what about the parking of nearly 240 of the 50 seaters? There is a net decrease in DCI fleet, net decrease in DCI seats, net decrease in DCI pilots, and a net increase of Delta pilots.

 

[777forever]

You have the same problem as waveflyer. You keep focusing on what should happen instead of what is actually possible. The NMB wasn't going to give you any help in this area. In fact, they were going to get pissed off if you kept pushing the issue, and they would park negotiations and leave you in limbo indefinitely. Pilots need to get educated on how this process works and what the NMB expects. It's not as simple as making demands and refusing to budge. You have a third party mediator to deal with who holds all of the cards.

Very well said.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[SplitBar]

The addition of more 76 seaters was a bad deal. The 50 seaters would have been going away anyways. We continue to be the industry leader in selling scope. I voted NO and don't appreciate all of the ALPA cheerleading. Should have been Delta pilots in those jets. Rant over.

No the 50 seaters simply were not "going away anyways" Delta was on the hook for those 50 seaters for the next 6-10 years. The new scopes gets rid of them now, not 6-10 years down the road. Also saves us from having to spend $500 Million on engine overhauls on them. I'm perplexed that people out there still believe that the 50 seaters were on the way out in the next couple of years "anyways".

 

[BID]

Negotiations at United ended late last night with no deal. Why no deal? Many reasons, one of them being scope. I can't imagine allowing 76 seat regional aircraft and it sounds like our union is on the same page.