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Delta TA on SCOPE

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General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
I am trying to read through this TA, lots of lawyer-speak so it can be tough at times. But, I zeroed in on Scope, and here are some things I think I got:



1. for 76 seaters, the MAX limit will be 223 planes, the old was 256 total 70 or 76 seaters, 153 which were 76 seaters.


2. for 50-70 seaters, the max will be 125. (how many 50 seaters are there now? Hundreds. How many 70 seaters total? Now it looks like there will be only 125 total 50 or 70 seaters, and they have to be at that number by 2014 I believe.


3. There has to be 1.25 new mainline entry planes (either 717 or A319) for every additional 76 seater added, but it still can only go to the max of 223. Right now there are 153 76 seaters, so if DL gets a bunch of new 717s and A319s, they may be allowed to go up to 223. IF they don't get any new 717s or A319s, the limit still stands at 153 76 seaters, which is what they have now. IOW, they have to get new entry planes (717 or A319) to get anymore 76 seaters.



4. Foreign Scope---DL was allowed to codeshare or have Joint Ventures and have 50% of the seats onboard the other carriers' planes. Now it will be reduced to 40%.


5. Alaska Air----Delta currently can codeshare with AK and can purchase up to 50% of the seats on a plane (up to 86 seats). That will now be pushed back to only 35%, except on flights from SEA to MSP and ATL, where those planes can still have 50%.

6. 35% of newhires in classes have to come from ALPA DCI carriers.



I think most of that is right, from a cursory glance. If I made any mistakes, please correct me. Yes, there are more 76 seat RJs, but there will be a lot less RJs total, and that is the main deal right now. Sure, the 50 seaters were going away anyway, but Delta supposedly is on the hook for them for another 10 years. Why is that? Good question. What to do about it? You can always park them or continue to fly them at a loss. Or, you can trade them up, bring down the total number via the RJ manufacturer, and clean up most of the problem. If larger planes are guaranteed (no 717s or extra A319s, no 76 seaters), and the total number of RJs goes down, then that helps.


Overall, I like the Scope section a lot more than I like the compensation part.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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I woulda liked to see something in there preventing the alliance from selling tickets. Oh well, ahead of our time i guess..

WRT 50 vs 76 - 2 things.
1) Your product is seat miles. Not airplanes.
2) What prevents DAL from loading up on 717s, maxing 76seats at 223, and then dumping mainline birds in the scrap yard? The way I read it, they can keep all 223 76seaters under that scenario. Which basically negates the whole "they hafta grow mainline first" argument.
 
Read this article. also, what's to say they won't get the 717's then the large RJ's and decide to retire the dc-9's and some MD-88's? Then we lose planes but the RJ's stay around. I don't like it.



MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Under a new deal with pilots, Delta Air Lines Inc. traded pay raises of almost 13 percent for the ability to operate more large regional jets, according to details of the agreement released on Monday.
Pilots and airlines are in a constant tug-of-war over how many smaller jets can be flown. Airlines like to hire feeder carriers to operate jets in the 76-seat range because they're big enough to be profitable even with higher fuel prices. And they're operated on Delta's behalf by feeder airlines, which pay their pilots less. Pilots see those small planes as a threat to their own jobs and generally try to limit how many of them can be flown for their airline.
The new agreement would allow Delta to add as many as 70 additional 76-seat jets. It would allow Delta to contract for flying on a total of 325 jets with 70 and 76 seats, up from 255 now.
To add those jets, the agreement requires Delta to reduce the number of 50-seat jets, which it has already been doing. It would also have to add to its own fleet more so-called narrowbody planes, those with more than 100 seats generally used for domestic flying. One possible source would be the Boeing Co.'s 717s that Southwest Airlines Co. inherited when it bought AirTran. Southwest has said it wants to sell those planes.
"We have every reason to believe that Delta will soon announce the purchase of aircraft contingent on the ratification of this agreement," wrote Tim O'Malley, the chairman of the master executive council for the Air Line Pilots Association at Delta.
Atlanta-based Delta declined to comment on specific fleet plans. But spokeswoman Gina Laughlin said the deal creates career opportunities for Delta pilots "while providing Delta with productivity gains and additional aircraft flexibility, including an opportunity to accelerate Delta's domestic fleet restructuring strategy, which will result in a better customer travel experience."
The new agreement came seven months early. Delta pilots were able to get a deal now because of "Delta's desire to execute its business plan in a timely fashion," O'Malley wrote. "This agreement represents a significant accomplishment achieved in a difficult economic and negotiating environment."
Delta pilots would get 4 percent hourly raises as soon as the deal is ratified, and another 8.5 percent raise on Jan. 1. They would also get 3 percent raises at the beginning of 2014 and 2015. The deal runs through the end of 2015.
O'Malley wrote that the agreement includes several other improvements, including larger retirement plan contributions and improved sick pay.
Delta's 10,850 pilots begin voting on the agreement next month.
 
I've got to keep reading the TA, and I will look into it. I am sure these questions will be answered in a Negotiators notepad or the roadshows. You are right, if they park other planes, will RJs be parked too? That would be an obvious mistake if that weren't in there. My headache is now a migrane...


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
FYI Currently you have outsourced:

348 50 Seaters
102 65-69 Seaters
153 76 Seaters
Total: 603 Aircraft / 35862 seats

Proposed outsourcing:
125 "70 seaters" (using 67 as an average again = 8750 seats)
223 76 seaters (16948 seats)
Total: 348 Aircraft / 25698 seats

Total seats go down by about 28%. But, when was the last time you saw a 50 seater running DTW-IAH, SLC-LAX, LGA-ORD, JFK-ORD, or MSP-YVR?

I think if you looked at the average miles flown by the 900/175 you'd see that the seat mile reduction is probably much less than 28%.
 
And why can't mainline pilots fly the new ones?
 

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