Delta TA on SCOPE

[PCL_128]

I will be taking a much needed break from just about everything but scotch!

I have to work, so have a drink for me!

 

[Speedtape]

The coming pilot shortage will eliminate the scope issues. Why waste negotiating capital to only chip the tip of the iceberg?

 

[xjhawk]

pilot shortage? But yet some still furlough? But yet most are still not hiring. There are tens of thousands of regional pilots lining up for the chance to get a job at the majors. There will not be a shortage at the majors-where it matters. There will be a death sentence for the regionals that do not have the ability to attract new pilots to fly the smaller airplanes. What will it take? A well managed company with decent, livable work rules. A livable wage. And so many, attractive pilot bases. I am sure the ones with steady flows to a mainline partner will be successful at attracting pilots as that would mean quicker upgrades and more pay.

 

[General Lee]

88 717s equals 1100 new jobs at Delta. Then throw in 25 MD90s. New, more productive reserve rules will equal 250 less jobs, but then add 200-300 early outs from an early out program associated with this TA. That early out program can give 39 weeks of pay, plus $120,000 into a medical account. Many wide body Captains (mainly fNWA pilots with their pensions intact) would probably take that. Them throw in thousands of pilots leaving in the next 5-10 years, and that means hiring.

Age 65 hurt everyone except the very senior, but they will be leaving soon. We can all complain about that forever, or just move on. The other legacies also have huge numbers leaving in the next 5-10 years, so current RJ pilots will have plenty of choices. And RJs will also stick around because some routes can't handle a 717 or larger. There you go, choices. The only guys without choices are the junior SWA pilots. Big stagnation and reserve for a decade are left for them after their merger, including a $8K bill for a 737 type. I bet many will be looking to escape when the legacies open up, especially for better QOL. So, if you have an extra $8K to burn and want to be on reserve for a decade, then you have another choice available in the next few years: SWA.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

Age 65 hurt everyone except the very senior, but they will be leaving soon.

They've been leaving for years, yet, they're still here.

 

[Scoot 11]

They've been leaving for years, yet, they're still here.

That's exactly right. Want to know when they'll. Leave? When they have to, at age 65!

 

[xray678]

88 717s equals 1100 new jobs at Delta. Then throw in 25 MD90s. New, more productive reserve rules will equal 250 less jobs, but then add 200-300 early outs from an early out program associated with this TA. That early out program can give 39 weeks of pay, plus $120,000 into a medical account. Many wide body Captains (mainly fNWA pilots with their pensions intact) would probably take that. Them throw in thousands of pilots leaving in the next 5-10 years, and that means hiring.

Do you think it will get too 200-300 before it is cut off due to staffing issues?

 

[lakemead1]

I think it depends where a majority of the early outs come from. If it is pretty evenly spread out amongst all categories then I think it will get to 300 guys. But if the majority comes from only one or two I.e. 744 and 777 then it may only get a hundred or so before they cut it off. Just a guess though.

 

[RJ Bum]

The coming pilot shortage will eliminate the scope issues. Why waste negotiating capital to only chip the tip of the iceberg?

Wow, I hope to hell you're being sacastic...

 

[Flybywire44]

Gennerall Lee and Speed Tape,

You both must understand regionalism is here to stay unless we kill it now when we have negotiating leverage. Delta is at a tipping point with spiking costs of an aging 50 seat fleet don't give DAL an out.

Otherwise, DAL, UAL and AMR will establish Ab Initio Programs for their regionals—they won't let their investments die.

If you want to stop puppy pilot regional farms than do so now. The 717s are needed to replace DC9s, they're not all growth. If Delta needs the airframes than they will get them regardless how DALPA votes on this TA.

 

[nwaf16dude]

Again PCL- treat me like a 3rd grader

How does this TA improve scope?

This is cut&pasted from Dalpa's answer to that question...sorry about the formatting.

• Current PWA Limits
  •  No limit on propeller-driven aircraft up to 70 seats and 70,000 lbs.
  •  No limit on jet aircraft up to 50-seats and 65,000 lbs.
  o Currently at 343 50-seat jet aircraft
   No more than 255 70 and 76-seat jet aircraft that may weigh up to 86,000 lbs.
  o Currently at 102 70-seat jet aircraft and 153 76-seat jet aircraft (total of 255)
  o Weight exception for 36 Compass EMB-175 at 89,000 lbs.
   Baseline of 153 76-seat jet aircraft that may weigh up to 86,000 lbs.
  o 3 for 1 growth of 76 seat aircraft once there are more than 767 aircraft on the mainline. Up to a maximum of 255 76-seat aircraft
• 
  TA Limits
   End state cap of 450 DCI aircraft
  o Exception for propeller-driven or turboprop aircraft of up to 37 seats and/or 37,000 lbs.
  o Exception for Delta Private Jets of up to 19 seats and 65,000 lbs.  Five aircraft may weigh up to 99,900 lbs

o Exception for up to nine aircraft operated under a prorate agreement with Chautauqua Airlines or Shuttle America, seating capacity up to 44 seats and less than 65,000 lbs.



 End state cap of 125 50-seat aircraft of up to 65,000 lbs. based on ratio reduction o Company plans to have 343 50-seat jet aircraft on July 1, 2012


o Under TA, reduction of 50-seat aircraft based on deliveries of new 76-seat
aircraft
o Zero future growth allowed
 Immediate hard cap of 102 70-seat aircraft of up to 86,000 lbs.
o Zero future growth allowed
 End state hard cap of 223 76-seat aircraft of up to 86,000 lbs.
o Existing weight exception for 36 Compass EMB-175 at 89,000 lbs. remains o Requires 1.25 SNB in fleet for each 76-seat aircraft added above current
153 in fleet up to maximum of 223
o This is a reduction of 32 76-seat aircraft from current PWA limit (based on
the current 3:1 growth metric and up to 255 76-seat aircraft)
o The combined cap on 70 and 76-seat aircraft increases to 325 (102 70-seat +
223 76-seat)
o Eliminates 3:1 growth over 767 mainline aircraft up to 255 o Zero future growth allowed



Delivery of additional 76-seat aircraft is prohibited until SNB aircraft are first added to the mainline fleet, and then, a simultaneous reduction of 50-seat aircraft is required. This is an event-based process and not time or date-based. As Delta implements their business plan and adds more SNBs, only then may they add more 76-seat aircraft, while also removing 50-seat aircraft. Once a 50-seat aircraft is removed, the number of allowable 50-seat aircraft is capped at that level until the next removal and so on. That cap can then never increase.
When the up-gauging is complete, the mainline share of domestic flying will have increasedfromthepresent54%to64%(basedonDelta’scurrentbusinessplan).



Put another way, this will result in a significant increase in mainline pilots’ share of Delta domestic flying.



As SNBs are added to the fleet, allowing faster access to the first additional 76-seat aircraft, a required minimum ratio of domestic mainline block hours to DCI block hours will be established and must be maintained. (For this purpose, domestic mainline block hours includes flying on all narrow body aircraft and all B-767-300 (non – ER) aircraft.) Under the minimum block hour ratio in this TA, Delta pilots will fly no less than 61% of the total Delta domestic system block hours once the last group of 76-seat aircraft are added. In other words, any reduction of domestic mainline block hours below a 1.56 ratio will trigger a mandatory reduction in DCI block hours in order to maintain the 1.56




ratio. Any future growth of Delta aircraft, will, by definition, be mainline growth. Even if Delta does not fully execute its business plan, we will have in place guarantees for our share of the domestic system flying, guarantees that do not exist under the current contract. We will be the only legacy airline pilot group that has gained domestic flying without flying small aircraft and/or agreeing to substantially lower pay rates or different work rules.

 

[JOPILOT]

It seems that the ratio of flying will swing in the DAL pilots favor with or without the approval of the TA since the economics of the 50 seat RJ are not sustainable. I see the purchase of the 717's as inevitable as well as the parking of DC-9's and other older A/C.

The scope limits are always changing with every TA so I do not see them as a victory as some have stated here.

I ultimately feel this TA is concesionary since we lose profit sharing just as Delta anticipates billions in profits, and would like to return to it's share holders. Pay raises in the TA will be paid for by the loss of profit sharing by the entire employee group which makes us less liked by our fellow employees ( I don't give a rip ). Reserve rule changes will eliminate a large portion of Green Slips, each day a GS is flown equals a 1% pay raise.

Last year I flew 9 days of Green and had a profit sharing check equal to a 4% raise,which if duplicated in 2012 ( of which I am on track) will equal a 13% raise. If we vote this in I will lose my remaining Greens and most likely a portion of the profit sharing.
As a junior line holder I do not see a lot of pay value in this TA and my quality of life on reserve if I choose is probably going to be lowered despite any raises, be it minimal.

I am strongly leaning toward a NO vote, I feel this is management's first offer and if it is rejected there will be an improved offer before Section 6 takes place. Risky but I feel a NO vote is the prudent vote.

JP

 

[aircombat]

I know pilots all think that the world revolves around them, but reality is quite different. Your pay rate is a tiny portion of the overall pie. What makes the regionals so cheap isn't just pilot pay rates, it's also benefits plans, corporate overhead, rampers, flight attendants, mechanics, customer service, etc. It is impossible for you to do the flying at mainline for as cheap as the regionals do it. Therefore, the only way to reign scope back in is to do it gradually at every legacy carrier until there is no outsourcing, leaving management without the problem of having to compete with other airlines that are able to outsource. If just one airline were to stop the outsourcing while the others did not, then they would be at a horrible competitive disadvantage.

Well if you believe it's impossible then it will be. I guess the vicious cycle will continue. We will just wait until the next Delta bankruptcy for you to blame why the regionals are flying so many 900s

 

[PCL_128]

Well if you believe it's impossible then it will be.

Prove me wrong, then. Explain how it's possible for mainline to fly the airplanes for the same cost.

 

[xjhawk]

Its not, All rates are higher than a regional airline. Pilots (rates and work rules), FA's, Mechanics etc. All lower costs for the 900 than if a mainline did it. Otherwise the regionals would not have been given that flying in the first place.