Delta TA on SCOPE

[captain caveman]

So you won't be happy until EVERY regional pilot is out of work? I can't wait until my foreclosure. That will be fun! And lets get off our high and mighty horses and stop pretending you are doing us a favor. We all know that there are not enough spots for everyone at Delta. You want all the 50 seaters eliminated, and no additional flying to off set that. Seems you have a job and you aren't going to be happy until we all don't have one! Mindless hatred.

Cry me a river. Update your logbook and start applying. Majors will be hiring bigtime. This is better for pilots in general including you.

 

[captain caveman]

General, Thanks for taking the time to disect the TA and provide your insight. I tend to agree with you that 76 seaters can't be as efficiently flown at mainline. But, let's think outside the box, for a second. If we trade 50s for bigger Bombardiers to be flown at mainline, they won't be 76 seaters at all. We could see CRJ1000s with 90 seats and a first class config or even some C-series. So in a way we are giving management some great flexibility.

Karma, I agree with you, we need to send it back.

 

[anewunion]

A ton of people I talk with will vote YES, including me. I'm not going to gamble for the next few year for just maybe 5% more. As far as scope goes, I think that a cap on how many DCI is the key. I really think that DAL management has figured a thing or two from SWA, and Jetblue.

Do your own flying...

 

[General Lee]

General, Thanks for taking the time to disect the TA and provide your insight. I tend to agree with you that 76 seaters can't be as efficiently flown at mainline. But, let's think outside the box, for a second. If we trade 50s for bigger Bombardiers to be flown at mainline, they won't be 76 seaters at all. We could see CRJ1000s with 90 seats and a first class config or even some C-series. So in a way we are giving management some great flexibility.

Karma, I agree with you, we need to send it back.

Do you know how much a CR9 or a CRJ1000 costs new? Four times what a used 717 costs. RA wants to bring the debt down to $10 billion by the end of next year so Delta can save $500 million per year in interest on the debt. That is why we are buying MD90s for $8 million each including the engines, and used 717s from Southwest. The only big order we have made so far lately was for the 100 737-900ERs, and I bet Boeing gave a great deal thanks to the 787 delays. When it comes down to it, mainline flying CR9s or CRJ1000s is way too expensive. We can't create a mainline RJ operation that costs less than the current whipsaw over at the regionals. Instead, we are using ratios that will ensure Mainline gaining ground over something that was impossible 5 years ago. 150 50 seat RJs have to go away within a couple years. That plus a 19% wage increase in 3 years, plus many improvements throughout our terrible BK contract makes me lean a lot towards YES. Read the material from the union, go to a roadshow like I will. Get informed, and remember, going back for more doesn't always work. (ask the Airtran guys) It might work, but it might not, in a big way.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

A ton of people I talk with will vote YES, including me. I'm not going to gamble for the next few year for just maybe 5% more. As far as scope goes, I think that a cap on how many DCI is the key. I really think that DAL management has figured a thing or two from SWA, and Jetblue.

Do your own flying...

I agree. There are some markets that a 717 or A319 just can't fly to, and it honestly would be too expensive to create our own CR9 category. It would be a logistical nightmare. Instead, let's work on getting 88 717s that allow a lot of FOs to move up (even I may consider jumping to Captain---take a look at the rates in a couple years. I would get an $80 raise per hour if I got onto the 737). Throw on a ratio where if mainline shrinks, DCI shrinks, and then you got a darn good deal. We want Delta to be profitable, so in 3 years we can come back and ask for MORE. To do that, we need profits on current RJ routes that are not profitable due to 50 seaters. Throw a 70 seater out there to help cover all of the costs the 50 seater can't handle. Tied growth, pay raise, better scope, improved sick leave, improved work rules, and 3 year contract. Not bad.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

RJs making money only keeps them around longer.

This^^^
Good general- that line of thinking proves at least 1 pilot who swore up and down on FI that he did get what was wrong with scope - doesn't.
I presume you just said that so I'd stop calling you sellouts??

The idea is this- if delta can't make $$ with an airplane without whipsawing 4 or 5 separate companies against each other to artificially keep labor wages low and violate the ENTIRE CONCEPT OF SENIORITY AND EXPERIENCE BASED PAY- THEN MAYBE THEY OUGHT NOT BE ALLOWED BY YOUR "UNION" (a joke of a union) to FLY THEM AT ALL.

If you need that false market and the thousands of disenfranchised pilots who will never have the leverage to improve their lot by much - then it is DALPA's RESPONSIBILITY TO STAND UP AND NOT HAVE IT.

You guys repeatedly fail in your responsibilities as a union- amazing considering the slippery slope you know scope tends to slide down

 

[PCL_128]

going back for more doesn't always work. (ask the Airtran guys)

Not sure what you mean by that last comment. Our 2007 TA was essentially cost-neutral. The meager pay raises were all offset by other concessions. Our 2010 contract represented an immediate 30% increase to pilot payroll. Rejecting the first TA was the right move.

But I do agree with you in general. Our situation was unique for many reasons. In general, though, sending a TA back in hopes of getting more is usually a losing proposition. Because of the time value of money, you usually lose far more than you gain from further negotiations.

 

[777forever]

This^^^
Good general- that line of thinking proves at least 1 pilot who swore up and down on FI that he did get what was wrong with scope - doesn't.
I presume you just said that so I'd stop calling you sellouts??

The idea is this- if delta can't make $$ with an airplane without whipsawing 4 or 5 separate companies against each other to artificially keep labor wages low and violate the ENTIRE CONCEPT OF SENIORITY AND EXPERIENCE BASED PAY- THEN MAYBE THEY OUGHT NOT BE ALLOWED BY YOUR "UNION" (a joke of a union) to FLY THEM AT ALL.

If you need that false market and the thousands of disenfranchised pilots who will never have the leverage to improve their lot by much - then it is DALPA's RESPONSIBILITY TO STAND UP AND NOT HAVE IT.

You guys repeatedly fail in your responsibilities as a union- amazing considering the slippery slope you know scope tends to slide down

Scope is heading in the right direction with this TA. No question about it. Not a homerun, but a significant still in the right direction

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[727RedTails]

I have only talked to one yes voter during a 4 day trip. I'm sorry the 4833 is paid for by productivity increases (ie less pilots) and a reduction in profit sharing. The 717's minus parking other airplanes and the productivity increases will mean little movement... Even the company negotiators are saying it's cost neutral. How is that a good deal?

Don't worry, RA wants to keep the momentum going and will look for a quick remedy if we vote it down. He thinks we are 3-4 years ahead of the other majors and wants to keep going forward with his plans.

VOTE NO!

 

[trip]

This^^^
Good general- that line of thinking proves at least 1 pilot who swore up and down on FI that he did get what was wrong with scope - doesn't.
I presume you just said that so I'd stop calling you sellouts??

The idea is this- if delta can't make $$ with an airplane without whipsawing 4 or 5 separate companies against each other to artificially keep labor wages low and violate the ENTIRE CONCEPT OF SENIORITY AND EXPERIENCE BASED PAY- THEN MAYBE THEY OUGHT NOT BE ALLOWED BY YOUR "UNION" (a joke of a union) to FLY THEM AT ALL.

If you need that false market and the thousands of disenfranchised pilots who will never have the leverage to improve their lot by much - then it is DALPA's RESPONSIBILITY TO STAND UP AND NOT HAVE IT.

You guys repeatedly fail in your responsibilities as a union- amazing considering the slippery slope you know scope tends to slide down

Somebody gets it!
This would require pain and sacrifice at the mainline level not gains, it will never happen.
With the passing of this TA RJ's at the lowest bidder airline have just been solidified by ALPA and the big players at mainline-again. Be sure to remind the next jagoff that give you crap for flying the RJ.