Delta Pilots Association - DPA

[Redmeat]

Since we are talking about the junior/senior debate, here is a question for the senior guys. What has alpa done in the past decade to protect the "senior" pilots?

Also the argument that senior guys don't care about scope relief because they aren't effected doesn't work because not all senior guys are on the widebody aircraft. Every pilot is effected negatively in one way or another when scope is relaxed and flying is outsourced.

Also this discussion isn't just about scope either. It's about alpa and the cookie jars. They can't represent dal or any pilot group for that matter, as long as we are pinned against one another. Delta pilots need representation that works for us and the issues that effect us as a group.

As long as alpa represents the regionals and the mainline groups, there will always be a conflict of interest and we will never get the most out of our union. I truly hope that alpa can refocus but until they combine the cookies or reduce the choices their will always be a conflict of interests.

I'm no ALPA National cheerleader believe me. My big contention was getting force fed age 65. I have absolutely no intention of flying professionally into my 60's.

My point was that given the numbers, there are enough guys senior enough that know (no matter how they feel about particular issues) that the doors would have to close at the airline before they ever see the street again.

That is a huge influence on decision making.

Besides that there ARE a lot of ALPA cheerleaders at the combined company (from both sides).

As for your direct question, ALPA is a good union for the screw ups...the guys who have there own chair with their name embroidered on it in the CP's office they're there so much.

Virtually impossible to successfully vote ALPA out of the new Delta.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Throwing ALPA out at DAL would make no difference. You'd have the same people running for office at whatever union took it's place.

At NWA, we took a lot of heat for our internal conflicts, but it served as an important check and balance to the kind of crap that just happened.

Maybe now the MEM/SEA/ANC reps will get onboard with the DTW reps.

For the fDAL guys...go to LEC meetings, and vote for the people who represent your interests. If there aren't any, then YOU run and lot's of people like what you have to say, then you will get elected.

Nu

 

[PCL_128]

What is the true problem here? ALPA National didn't agree to the grievance settlement that you're pissed off about, Captain Moak did. ALPA National didn't let it happen, your status reps did. Talk to your status reps and see why they allowed this to happen. If they don't give you a good answer, then recall them.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why does EVERYONE want to do nothing until a crises occurs?

Proactivity and being involved in your career is not an old concept. The problem isn't National or DALPA....

Look in the mirror....

If you get a new brand of union, and continue with apathy, it is not going to solve your problems.

Question: has USAPA proved to be a better deal for USAIR pilots?

Pilots constantly expect to NOT vote and participate and complain that their needs are not met.

First off... representation erodes rights. If you actually did vote for a representative, you diminish your OWN representation and rights. Simply because you are not at every meeting to speak up for yourself.

But you want the convenience of representation so you don't HAVE to attend every meeting.


The problem with our democracy system in our unions (and Country) is not the Brand Name of the Democracy...

It is the lack of involvement of the very people that democracy is supposed to represent....

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Heyas,

Throwing ALPA out at DAL would make no difference. You'd have the same people running for office at whatever union took it's place.

EXACTLY!

 

[dalad]

The problem with what you suggest is the shear number of pilots on the combined list with 10 years or more seniority.

Your problem is not theirs. To these guys scope is about number 10 on a list of 10... importance wise.

Quality of life issues are probably the top five, then pay and so on.

Junior guys get the shaft in this biz...always have always will.

Nature of the beast...

Uh, excuse me but I would love to get rid of ALPA and the self serving trip drop, management birthday bash attending country club and put people in the union who care about the pilots, scope, pay rates, pension, sick leave, medical, etc. I have 19 years, sign me up!

 

[dalad]

Oh, also get rid of Athena Group as well.

 

[nonstop]

I'm starting to feel the same way. Why subsidize all these regional airlines in ALPA with negotiating capital whose sole purpose of existence is to erode mainline careers?

The AA and SWA pilots seem to do okay on their own so no doubt 12,400 DAL pilots could.

 

[Fly4hire]

I'm starting to feel the same way. Why subsidize all these regional airlines in ALPA with negotiating capital whose sole purpose of existence is to erode mainline careers?

The AA and SWA pilots seem to do okay on their own so no doubt 12,400 DAL pilots could.

Very well said.

When you hear all the "reasonable'' RJ guys talk about a "solution" that works for "everyone", if not allowing bigger aircraft, it involves a compromise whereby we all "give up a little" so they can get something other than a staple.

So what did they give up? As if Capt in an RJ is the equivalent of Capt in a mainline in terms of career expectations and experience? Nor is it the equivalent of a mainline F/O - your Feeder experience IS worth something - getting you an interview and a bottom of the list number at a mainline if you are lucky. Even a staple is a windfall as many who might not have been hired otherwise now have a mainline number.

If you spent 12 yrs at a feeder it was personal *choice* or a deficiency that prevented you from being hired at a mainline - neither of which is ALPA's nor mainlines pilots job to rectify.

The hell with Herndon....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The logic of wanting to switching unions at DAL is like a McDonalds customer complaining that the food is making him fat only to look at Burger King for "change"!

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm starting to feel the same way. Why subsidize all these regional airlines in ALPA with negotiating capital whose sole purpose of existence is to erode mainline careers?

The AA and SWA pilots seem to do okay on their own so no doubt 12,400 DAL pilots could.

I doubt they would be doing as well as they are were it not for ALPA. The contributions ALPA has made to our profession are immense.
The Allied pilots are responsible for the introduction of the B-Scale to our industry. You could also argue that the erosion of work rules and retirement is part of the "Southwest effect". We all know what a joke USAPA has been.
All the anti ALPA people all seem way more focused on their own personal situation with little regard for the industry as a whole.

 

[Fly4hire]

The logic of wanting to switching unions at DAL is like a McDonalds customer complaining that the food is making him fat only to look at Burger King for "change"!

I prefer the analogy of getting ill from too much processed foods. A home grown union might be as good for us as home grown produce - we get to control what we are fed...... Of course I expect Regional pilots to defend ALPA - your best bet is to tear down the mainlines from within via soft serve DFR arguments. You know YOU are toast without ALPA. Not so AA, DAL, UPS, SWA, etc.

 

[Dan Roman]

Very well said.

When you hear all the "reasonable" RJ guys talk about a "solution" that works for everyone, if not allowing bigger aircraft it involves a compromise whereby we all "give up a little" so they can get something other than a staple. So what did they give up? As if Capt in an RJ is the equivalent of Capt in a mainline in terms of career expectations and experience?

The hell with Herndon....

I have to plead total ignorance on the whole RJ deal. My airline doesn't have any express carriers.
That said, I don't get it. The regionals exist because their mainline partner wants the feed from routes too slim to justify mainline aircraft.
Seems like it should have been a win win deal. More jobs created for regional pilots and more feed for mainline to grow.
Now it seems regional pilots are fighting for "their share"? They exist because of the their mainline partner. Why would a regional pilot feel entitled to a seniority number with the mainline airline? What's wrong with a mainline carrier protecting any flying it could do. It doesn't "belong" to a regional.
I flew for an Allegheny Commuter in the 70's and early 80's. I sure couldn't imagine thinking USAir owed me a job. We existed because of USAir, but I sure wouldn't have expected to just bypass their hiring process into a mainline job and I can't imagine thinking I should bypass in seniority someone who allready works there.

 

[PCL_128]

Of course I expect Regional pilots to defend ALPA - your best bet is to tear down the mainlines from within via soft serve DFR arguments. You know YOU are toast without ALPA. Not so AA, DAL, UPS, SWA, etc.

He doesn't work at a regional.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Why don't you guys start with something easy and obvious like GET RID OF MOAK...then see how it goes from there. Get someone strong and LEGITMATE in that position!