Delta Pilots Association - DPA

[ACL65PILOT]

Count this 12 yr+ pilot as having scope #1 priority.
That being said, I think that the latest uproar is blown out of proportion. I certainly do not like it either, but feel that the fownside of a loss in arbitration was unacceptable as a risk.

Count me also in as one who does not want to bring Compass, Comair, Mesaba on the list. My hugely scientific poll, meaning asking my f/os from these places, indicates that there is still a large gap in wage, quality of life, and retirement that needs to be closed prior to hauling everyone on board and then closing the gap with my negotiating captial.

Thatbeing said, I am all in favor of bringing in 70 seat scope in C12K and striking over it.

Thoughts from a middle guy.

Which way do the contracts need go. Mainlines have been getting worse and the regional's better. Their contracts have gotten a lot better as of late.

I also agree that many have over reacted this time. Our MEC better have taken note. The question that needs to be asked is why?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Arbitration Fairness Act just Introduced

Interesting timing:
http://consumerist.com/5151352/the-arbitration-fairness-act-is-in-the-house

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am not sure that ALPA is the only one to share this blame.
We at DAL have always as a group voted for the contract that gave away scope. It is an issue, but we always sign on to it. Is that the message we are sending?????!
I think that we have finally in an effective way gone on record that scope is no longer a section of the contract that we sell for perceived gains.

 

[Superpilot92]

The fact that DAL is now so large also give the group more total pull in the national structure.

Super, if you feel passionately about scope, maybe you need to get involved a little bit. Maybe an idea for a resolution at a council meeting?

You had formerly claimed to be a student of Occam's Razor, but this current thread doesn't sound much like that..

I am a bit confused, I have never claimed to be a student of occams I have met him once though, nice guy for sure.

With that said, I am getting involved and making my voice heard and no not just on here. Everyone should do the same.

 

[Superpilot92]

I think that we have finally in an effective way gone on record that scope is no longer a section of the contract that we sell for perceived gains.

That's the point everyone needs to be pushing IMHO

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite true, and you can get involved. Become a LEC rep and effect change. As always you can vote no even if it comes with a pay increase.

 

[NuGuy]

Very well said.

When you hear all the "reasonable'' RJ guys talk about a "solution" that works for "everyone", if not allowing bigger aircraft, it involves a compromise whereby we all "give up a little" so they can get something other than a staple.

So what did they give up? As if Capt in an RJ is the equivalent of Capt in a mainline in terms of career expectations and experience? Nor is it the equivalent of a mainline F/O - your Feeder experience IS worth something - getting you an interview and a bottom of the list number at a mainline if you are lucky. Even a staple is a windfall as many who might not have been hired otherwise now have a mainline number.

If you spent 12 yrs at a feeder it was personal *choice* or a deficiency that prevented you from being hired at a mainline - neither of which is ALPA's nor mainlines pilots job to rectify...

Heyas F4H,

I like your argument. The "reasonable" RJ guys all say the same thing "fkcu yea, we'll take a staple", because they understand that it is sure thing advancement to a better career.

It's the angry ones that are impeding the process for the silent majority. These are the guys you mention in your message, the same one's who want something for nothing because they were too lazy or stupid to get off their a$$ and get their career going.

I'm done catering to these guys. If the opportunity comes to reclaim the 70 seat flying, I'll be happy to do it, with no quarter given. If that means putting one or more DCI carriers plain out of business, then so be it.

Nu

 

[clippyrip]

I am getting involved and making my voice heard and no not just on here. Everyone should do the same.

I am with you Super, ALPA needs to go. They are a bunch of fat cats who forgot who and what they represent.

That being said, how does the process get started?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Count this 12 yr+ pilot as having scope #1 priority.
That being said, I think that the latest uproar is blown out of proportion. I certainly do not like it either, but feel that the fownside of a loss in arbitration was unacceptable as a risk.

Count me also in as one who does not want to bring Compass, Comair, Mesaba on the list. My hugely scientific poll, meaning asking my f/os from these places, indicates that there is still a large gap in wage, quality of life, and retirement that needs to be closed prior to hauling everyone on board and then closing the gap with my negotiating captial.

Thatbeing said, I am all in favor of bringing in 70 seat scope in C12K and striking over it.

Thoughts from a middle guy.

Puff Driver:

Let me ask your response to this concept:

As we outsource flying our bargaining strength is decreased resulting in a long term negative trend of lower highs and lower lows.

I'm all for "taking it back" but we probably will have to do that through mergers. In the alternative we would have to exit ALPA (due to the legal conflict of interest) wait for a Section 6 opportunity and fight tooth and nail for scope. I support either option, but I doubt we would decertify and doubt we'd fight as hard as we would need to to take it back - after all 12 billion dollars worth of airplanes is HUGE bargaining capital for management. Merging Compass, then Mesaba, then Comair are a whole lot more realistic way to bring Delta flying back to the Delta pilots. These mergers could be done under current contracts without full blown section 6 negotiations.

What else is a realistic way to reach our common goals?

The Delta new hires that would flow to the top of the Compass list would make the same, if not slightly better, earnings. Most regionals now have trip / duty rigs, 401K matching, performance incentives and profit sharing .... our insurance was worlds better. To sum up, a DAL pilot could bid the left seat of Compass to make more money under current contracts without costing you any of your bargaining capital.

If we plotted outsourcing and your pay, with other airlines that do not outsource, you might be surprised to find that your bargaining power is increased as Delta pilots control more flying.

The reason why the 76 seat scope settlement is such a big deal is because it again indicates that our union sees scope violations as something to be bargained. Our Company orders RJ expecting that they can deal a way to fly them. And we received the signal that our union is not going to fight for scope... there is more about to be revealed about how we may have interpreted that some of NWA's job protection provisions do not apply to ASA and Comair.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The Delta new hires that would flow to the top of the Compass list would make the same, if not slightly better, earnings. Most regionals now have trip / duty rigs, 401K matching, performance incentives and profit sharing .... our insurance was worlds better. To sum up, a DAL pilot could bid the left seat of Compass to make more money under current contracts without costing you any of your bargaining capital.

You're assuming DL would furlough a number exactly equal to the number of Compass captains.

A more realistic scenario: DL furloughs 1,000 pilots. A lucky 150 become Compass captains with no significant pay cut but horrendous work rules. An unluckier 150 become Compass FO's and the unluckiest of all are the 700 that are left to fend for themselves.

We'd better negotiate more flow-throughs if the economy continues the way it's headed.