Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Delta Pilots Association - DPA

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
That Joe is where you are incorrect. I will afforded them the same place I would expected to be with the "fix." I knew and still know where the cards would fall if this was done. That in essence is why I came to DAL. Best case I jumped at least 800 numbers.
 
Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrafice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.
 
Heyas,

This thread is a perfect example of why this process will never work. The reasonable people start coming up with reasonabe solutions, and the whole process gets hijacked by losers who should still be flying stool samples in a 402.


The good thing about the whole grievance is that it has energized the pilot group.

A word to the junior scooters, dont let the old bitter guys ruin what could be a good dead. You saw it Comair and XJ. Any goodies that might be on the table will be gone...no longevity for vacation, no DOH for nonrevving...nothing. You'll get what you get, and be thankful you're not mowing my lawn.

Nu
 
NuGuy said:
Heyas,

This thread is a perfect example of why this process will never work. The reasonable people start coming up with reasonabe solutions, and the whole process gets hijacked by losers who should still be flying stool samples in a 402.


The good thing about the whole grievance is that it has energized the pilot group.

A word to the junior scooters, dont let the old bitter guys ruin what could be a good dead. You saw it Comair and XJ. Any goodies that might be on the table will be gone...no longevity for vacation, no DOH for nonrevving...nothing. You'll get what you get, and be thankful you're not mowing my lawn.

Nu
Click to expand...

Yep. That is why a list merger will not happen. It is also precisely why flow through with cooperative carriers is the best way to go. Like the RJDC, it is a minority which will kill a reasonable deal via false claims of leverage. He claims the superior job, the ability to predict the future, and to speak for all ASA pilots. Bottom line, a deal cannot be struck that offers only upside potential for RJ pilots without the downside risk as well. The legacy is the superior job. In two years, ACL is back to where he was with ASA. I did it in 6 months. Keep talking to those captains, they will be your captains for a very long time:

From outtahere:

Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrafice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.
Click to expand...
 
outtahere said:
Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrafice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.
Click to expand...

I don't see the regional contracts getting better. Comair, Air Wisconsin, and ACA were the best paid regionals with the best contracts. Comair and Air Wisconsin have taken significant paycuts while ACA doesn't exist anymore. Republic is negotiating a new contract right now. We will see what they get. I have a feeling it will not be much better than what it currently is. They will probably give up captain pay to raise the first officer pay. There is a whipsaw at the regionals. This holds you back. It took me 1 year to get to a higher hourly wage than 9th year captain pay at my regional (I was only on 4th year pay when I left). The legacy job is superior to yours. Don't kid yourself.
 
No see I am a Captain and want to keep it that way. You all can keep your right seats in the big ole 767, I'll be happy in my rj as long as Delta management, read not Dalpa, cancels our contract.
 
hockeypilot44 said:
I don't see the regional contracts getting better. Comair, Air Wisconsin, and ACA were the best paid regionals with the best contracts. Comair and Air Wisconsin have taken significant paycuts while ACA doesn't exist anymore. Republic is negotiating a new contract right now. We will see what they get. I have a feeling it will not be much better than what it currently is. They will probably give up captain pay to raise the first officer pay. There is a whipsaw at the regionals. This holds you back. It took me 1 year to get to a higher hourly wage than 9th year captain pay at my regional (I was only on 4th year pay when I left). The legacy job is superior to yours. Don't kid yourself.
Click to expand...
Good for you, when you get furloughed how much will you be making?
 
outtahere said:
Good for you, when you get furloughed how much will you be making?
Click to expand...

I would be making 64 hr at Compass, which is 3.00 less than I was making at XJT. Say I'm furloughed for 3 yrs, when I come back to DAL I would be on year 5 pay scale. Trust me it is better on this side. Keep telling youself you are better at ASA. I hope it works our for, I really do.

If you are like 55 plus maybe you should stay.
 
outtahere said:
No see I am a Captain and want to keep it that way. You all can keep your right seats in the big ole 767, I'll be happy in my rj as long as Delta management, read not Dalpa, cancels our contract.
Click to expand...

That explains it then....RJCS

Regional jet captain syndrome. Very telling indeed.

I'll go back to the right seat of a 767 than the right seat of an rj. 116 if I go back, 61 if you go back. No brainer. Another 100 50 seaters parked this year alone. Where oh where will they come from?????????????
 
We all make choices in life and live with the concequenses. If I stay here and bad ******************** happens, so be it. If you think yall are gonna negotiate a flow through in this econamy with ASA, or any other regional for that matter, so bad ******************** don't happen to you, keep dreaming. Hope you enjoy Compass, I hear that E175 is real nice.
 
outtahere said:
We all make choices in life and live with the concequenses. If I stay here and bad ******************** happens, so be it. If you think yall are gonna negotiate a flow through in this econamy with ASA, or any other regional for that matter, so bad ******************** don't happen to you, keep dreaming. Hope you enjoy Compass, I hear that E175 is real nice.
Click to expand...

Lol. You don't get it. If we need this flow-down agreement, Delta will put pressure on ASA to get it. I watched US Airways do it to Chautauqua and Republic. The Republic union decided that some growth was better than no growth so they allowed it. ASA management will put the pressure on your union also. They will threaten you with more furloughs than if they didn't. I've seen flow-downs happen before. The regional pilots almost never want it.
 
Go ahead and believe that. The ASA pilot group is very senior for a regional, and we don't take well to pressure. Our mgmt tried that in contract negotiations, we went for five plus years and had the worst performance of any airline. We can handle no growth, its been that way since Skywest bought us, so nothing will really change. I'm sure the Skywest pilots will roll over for you though.
 
hockeypilot44 said:
Why didn't you leave?
Click to expand...

When I started in this business...that was the plan...Plans change however....

3 downturns (early 90's, early 00's, and current) later it doesn't make sense anymore from a QOL standpoint....My single biggest issue is QOL and time off....including time off when I want it....

I don't have SJS...In fact now that I am on the RJ, I can honestly say that I like the ATR more.....

Many who left...regret leaving....Many who left....returned after their next few carriers went TU....and yes many have no regrets leaving....There is no way to know what the "right" answer is until such time as you retire and look back.....

I'll leave you with this....In my recent RJ training....I had an instructor who left ASA and did tours with both Eastern and Pan Am....Now he is back at ASA with less longevity and seniority....He is junior to me now.....Any of you "career expectations" advocates want to tell me what his "career expectations" are?
 
ACL65PILOT said:
That Joe is where you are incorrect. I will afforded them the same place I would expected to be with the "fix." I knew and still know where the cards would fall if this was done. That in essence is why I came to DAL. Best case I jumped at least 800 numbers.
Click to expand...

And how exactly do you plan on putting ASA pilots on your list now that we aren't owned by Delta anymore? Ain't going to happen.....
 
~~~^~~~ said:
Joe - For a long time I've been restrained and polite about it, but I'm tired of your innuendo and now when you flat out lie, I'm calling you on it.

We'll kick this around off the board since it is unrelated to the thread, but for the record:
  • I am not a supporter of the RJDC, have not been since hearing about the direction settlement was going.
  • I objected to the hiring of the RJDC's attorney, objected to the complaint, did not wish to be a class representative, or litigant and was excluded from attorney client (and I assume other internal) distribution lists since I could be deposed and would have to answer and supply any communications received. (now you want to reconsider the lie you told?)
  • I received no notice of the settlement, no notice as a class member and certainly did not receive any money. If what you wrote is the truth, the RJDC failed to properly provide notice and distribution (see where this is going?)
  • I supported the RJDC when I believed it was an effort to fix scope and obtain one list across our brand's flying. My goal was to return Delta flying to Delta pilots.
  • I believed (and argued on this board) that the monetary claim was simply an enforcement mechanism and that the RJDC was a reform minded movement. I was embarrassed by the $600,000.00.
  • The RJDC has become an advocate for its own version of predatory scope, using its settlement to attempt sniper shots at other pilots working agreements with the stated goal of scope by type certificates which would result in the outsourcing of the E190 sized jets, then a matrix to continue that path to 737 sized aircraft.
You want to start discussing you now? Gloves are coming off.
Click to expand...

Damn, that was beautiful! Well done, Fins!
 
PCL - good luck with the certification drive. That would make a positive difference at AirTran and it would be great to have your group on board. The AirTran guys are always awesome on the jumpseat - good folks.

Joe - you might not like the Boeing, but the overnights can be flippin' incredible.
 
Last edited:
~~~^~~~ said:
Joe - you might not like the Boeing, but the overnights can be flippin' incredible.
Click to expand...

Fins....my goal is to have as few overnights as possible and as much time off as possible....

It was good talking to you today....Hopefully we can agree to disagree peacefully.....

We BOTH have legitimate concerns and I only wish we had a true union that worked with BOTH sides to resolve those concerns....You have always been more optimistic than I have.....

With ALPA you are a glass half full guy...I am a glass half empty guy....Time will tell and good luck....

You have to give me some credit for those quotes of yours I dug up......:beer:
 
:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

JoeMerchant said:
Fins....my goal is to have as few overnights as possible and as much time off as possible....

It was good talking to you today....Hopefully we can agree to disagree peacefully.....

We BOTH have legitimate concerns and I only wish we had a true union that worked with BOTH sides to resolve those concerns....You have always been more optimistic than I have.....

With ALPA you are a glass half full guy...I am a glass half empty guy....Time will tell and good luck....

You have to give me some credit for those quotes of yours I dug up......:beer:
Click to expand...
 
outtahere said:
Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrafice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.
Click to expand...


Do not forget, you have to finish your online degree to qualify for a major. Get back to the books young man!
 
As an ASA pilot and ALPA volunteer, I will fight ALPA on any move to take my job and give a Delta pilot seniority above me. ALPA had better be careful here. Many of us at ASA are on the fence about ALPA. We realize the benefits and do undertand the strengths of ALPA. We also are concerned about mainline pilots trying to take our jobs. There is a mutually beneficial solution if ALPA can find the leadership.
 
FightingIrish said:
As an ASA pilot and ALPA volunteer, I will fight ALPA on any move to take my job and give a Delta pilot seniority above me. ALPA had better be careful here. Many of us at ASA are on the fence about ALPA. We realize the benefits and do undertand the strengths of ALPA. We also are concerned about mainline pilots trying to take our jobs. There is a mutually beneficial solution if ALPA can find the leadership.
Click to expand...

Your job is a contract job, subject to termination with another regional or Delta and the Delta MEC's decision to insource that flying.
 
FightingIrish said:
As an ASA pilot and ALPA volunteer, I will fight ALPA on any move to take my job and give a Delta pilot seniority above me. ALPA had better be careful here. Many of us at ASA are on the fence about ALPA. We realize the benefits and do undertand the strengths of ALPA. We also are concerned about mainline pilots trying to take our jobs. There is a mutually beneficial solution if ALPA can find the leadership.
Click to expand...

None of these discussions about taking back 76 seat flying mean anything unless management wants to bring the flying back - which they are already doing to a degree by cutting back on 50 seaters (Isn't this what is happening with Cmr now?) and and trying to dump Mesa, and now Skywest for contractual non-performance.

DAL can simply choose not to renegotiate contracts and pick up the lift with mainline acft and your company and jobs start to evaporate. Then you have no job, and it wasn't even ALPA.

If I was King and saw this trend evolving, I'd just sit back and let you spin yourself up and watch your RJDC head explode, enjoy the flying that comes back to the mainline, and not have to deal with all the ankle biting from the RJ ranks.

Too bad the morons running your agenda spoil it for the vast majority who realize even a staple is a immensley good deal.
 
outtahere said:
You know what, you arrogant pricks are forgetting one little point. As soon as these. Contracts are signed with this flying that you "own", it is no longer your flying. ASA has a contract with Delta for x number of airframes, you can put whatever you want in your next contract for all future flying, but what we are doing today we will be doing until our contract with Delta is up. Last time I checked, Skywest Inc didn't sit down with Dalpa to negotiate their lift agreement. Also personally I don't give a ******************** if y'all like us or respect us cause I can tell you the feeling is mutual. Nothing puts a smile on my face faster than getting the last seat on an ASA airplane and leaving a Delta guy behind. Remember it was your grand plan to change our boarding priority after we were sold so that you all could bump our senior guys off your a/c. Guess y'all forgot that alot of your pilots commute out of most of the cities we service. And one more thing, I don't want a staple to anybodys list. I'm perfectly fine where I am thanks. If I want a job at Delta I will apply, though I don't see that happening, I could never amass an ego big enough to fill the double breasted jacket.
Click to expand...

Man that was a close one. It is a good thing you are not applying! I think you are short changing yourself. I think you have more than enough ego.:rolleyes:
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom