Delta Pilots Association - DPA

[eaglesview]

With the last five or so posts you can see why ALPA can not work. They have know clue who they represent. If I were al DAL/NWA I would vote in house in a second. Still looking for that chance here at UAL

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They must really pump your head full of ******************** in indoc when you go to Delta. " You guys are now the cream of the crop of all airline pilots" and you morons believe it. I don't have the desire to go to a major because it would negatively impact my quality of life for a long time, not to mention the very real possibility of a furlough that I just cannot afford. Then you couple that with flying with some of these Delta pricks, and the fact that I just could never think that I was the uber pilot and all the little regional pukes should bow down. All that together makes me think that I'd rather stay at ASA and bet on the fact that Delta pilots, as egotistical as they are, will never sacrafice a single penny in their contract for scope. Personally, I feel pretty secure at ASA, matter of fact, I think there will come a day when we are flying much larger aircraft because you guys can't quit compenstaing for having a little dick.

I have to say you are awesome. I mean it. It takes a ton of work to be so hateful towards a group. What it is indicative of is a guy that does not do his home work. I was one of your former coworkers. There were a few people like you over at ASA. Fact is that most people looked up to their big brother. It is OK that you do not want to admit that.
I can tell you that I looked at staying there too. I became very familiar with the realm that ASA and all DCI operators work in. I read the contracts and realized that best case scenario I was looking at five to ten more good years at the regional before it stated to take some serious lums. That is only about two years away. I hope you are smart enough to see this .

Most of the pilots that I fly with here, do there job and go home. Politics are not something they get in to. So when some spews this crud, they have no paitence for it. It is ones like me and Puffdriver that will have a good heathy debate with you becuase like you we were in your shoes at one time. We have seen both sides of the fence and I hate to say it but this side is greener.

 

[Raoul Duke]

One benefit of booting ALPA is knowing that 100% of dues money is actually used to the benefit of Delta pilots, not competing carriers. In addition it would be an immediate cut in all of the BS overhead that ALPA has carried for too long.

 

[TurboAWD]

Booting ALPA creates more problems then it solves.

Turbo

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

How you figure??? We (the majors) carry the financial burden at ALPA. Without us, it is bankrupt and gone. I would prefer to stay ALPA but I don't feel we get our value from them anymore, due to natl. being afraid of thier shadow and not clearly explaining what the role/risk is to be a subcontracter.
They have done a terrible job explaining that as a subcontracter you have NO RIGHTS to any flying. At some point some of you (RJDC, LIFERs) felt this loaned out flying is yours. Its not, and ALPA has failed to address this.

Booting ALPA creates more problems then it solves.

Turbo

 

[JoeMerchant]

Fins,
Here is just one post of many when you were on the ASA side of the scope fence....It was in a thread from back in 2004...It's no different than what I just posted....Only difference is you have changed your opinion now that you are on the other side of the scope fence that is defending neither of us...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=36549&highlight=Fins+RJDC

General: I think you are right. I'm trying to find the source of the "6,000" number that I remember reading. More important to ALPA than the furloughs - is that 6,000 is very close to the number it would lake to wrestle ALPA back from those who hijacked the union and the hijackers are not giving up that easy. Those in power ( with half million dollar ALPA compensation packages ) do not want to risk "democracy" at a BOD meeting.

You are also assuming the RJDC litigation, filed prior to the Statute of Limitations for a cause of action resulting from changes when the C2K scope took effect, doesn't exist.

Cohen, Weiss and Simon may have to put a leash on the Delta MEC, or the Delta MEC may have to leave ALPA in order to successfully take jobs from ASA and Comair pilots. Your jets for jobs proposals will get a different reception from the ASA and Comair pilots and we have already seen ALPA's play book by watching what mainline did to the US Air Express pilots.

General, it is nothing personal, but we will defend ourselves. Your MEC sold scope and now those "permitted aircraft types" are being flown by other ALPA members with just as much right to negotiate as you have. I believe this is the last time we will see mainline lock out other ALPA members on the property because the Courts will intervene. All the pieces are already in place and yet, ALPA is walking right into the breach.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here is another Fins quote from the same thread.....

General:

Have you forgotten that your MEC is responsible for this alter ego mess?

Its hard to feel too sorry for the Delta pilots when they got exactly what they negotiated for.

~~~^~~~

I understand your frustration Fins....but I am not saying anything you didn't say when you were still at ASA....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I think that he stills feels that most of this mess could be avoided. We are working from this side to fix that.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think that he stills feels that most of this mess could be avoided. We are working from this side to fix that.

1. The best chance to "fix" this was back in 2000...The cost is much higher now....I doubt there is the political will to spend the negotiating capital that would be required...

2. I seriously doubt either of you are too concerned about how the "fix" affects ASA pilots now that both of you have left....

 

[hockeypilot44]

1. The best chance to "fix" this was back in 2000...The cost is much higher now....I doubt there is the political will to spend the negotiating capital that would be required...

2. I seriously doubt either of you are too concerned about how the "fix" affects ASA pilots now that both of you have left....

Why didn't you leave?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That Joe is where you are incorrect. I will afforded them the same place I would expected to be with the "fix." I knew and still know where the cards would fall if this was done. That in essence is why I came to DAL. Best case I jumped at least 800 numbers.

 

[outtahere]

Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrafice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

This thread is a perfect example of why this process will never work. The reasonable people start coming up with reasonabe solutions, and the whole process gets hijacked by losers who should still be flying stool samples in a 402.


The good thing about the whole grievance is that it has energized the pilot group.

A word to the junior scooters, dont let the old bitter guys ruin what could be a good dead. You saw it Comair and XJ. Any goodies that might be on the table will be gone...no longevity for vacation, no DOH for nonrevving...nothing. You'll get what you get, and be thankful you're not mowing my lawn.

Nu

 

[PuffDriver]

Heyas,

This thread is a perfect example of why this process will never work. The reasonable people start coming up with reasonabe solutions, and the whole process gets hijacked by losers who should still be flying stool samples in a 402.


The good thing about the whole grievance is that it has energized the pilot group.

A word to the junior scooters, dont let the old bitter guys ruin what could be a good dead. You saw it Comair and XJ. Any goodies that might be on the table will be gone...no longevity for vacation, no DOH for nonrevving...nothing. You'll get what you get, and be thankful you're not mowing my lawn.

Nu

Yep. That is why a list merger will not happen. It is also precisely why flow through with cooperative carriers is the best way to go. Like the RJDC, it is a minority which will kill a reasonable deal via false claims of leverage. He claims the superior job, the ability to predict the future, and to speak for all ASA pilots. Bottom line, a deal cannot be struck that offers only upside potential for RJ pilots without the downside risk as well. The legacy is the superior job. In two years, ACL is back to where he was with ASA. I did it in 6 months. Keep talking to those captains, they will be your captains for a very long time:

From outtahere:

Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrafice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrafice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.

I don't see the regional contracts getting better. Comair, Air Wisconsin, and ACA were the best paid regionals with the best contracts. Comair and Air Wisconsin have taken significant paycuts while ACA doesn't exist anymore. Republic is negotiating a new contract right now. We will see what they get. I have a feeling it will not be much better than what it currently is. They will probably give up captain pay to raise the first officer pay. There is a whipsaw at the regionals. This holds you back. It took me 1 year to get to a higher hourly wage than 9th year captain pay at my regional (I was only on 4th year pay when I left). The legacy job is superior to yours. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Who is this Karma everyone speaks of? Has anyone met Karma?

 

[outtahere]

No see I am a Captain and want to keep it that way. You all can keep your right seats in the big ole 767, I'll be happy in my rj as long as Delta management, read not Dalpa, cancels our contract.

 

[outtahere]

I don't see the regional contracts getting better. Comair, Air Wisconsin, and ACA were the best paid regionals with the best contracts. Comair and Air Wisconsin have taken significant paycuts while ACA doesn't exist anymore. Republic is negotiating a new contract right now. We will see what they get. I have a feeling it will not be much better than what it currently is. They will probably give up captain pay to raise the first officer pay. There is a whipsaw at the regionals. This holds you back. It took me 1 year to get to a higher hourly wage than 9th year captain pay at my regional (I was only on 4th year pay when I left). The legacy job is superior to yours. Don't kid yourself.

Good for you, when you get furloughed how much will you be making?

 

[Griswold]

Good for you, when you get furloughed how much will you be making?

I would be making 64 hr at Compass, which is 3.00 less than I was making at XJT. Say I'm furloughed for 3 yrs, when I come back to DAL I would be on year 5 pay scale. Trust me it is better on this side. Keep telling youself you are better at ASA. I hope it works our for, I really do.

If you are like 55 plus maybe you should stay.

 

[PuffDriver]

No see I am a Captain and want to keep it that way. You all can keep your right seats in the big ole 767, I'll be happy in my rj as long as Delta management, read not Dalpa, cancels our contract.

That explains it then....RJCS

Regional jet captain syndrome. Very telling indeed.

I'll go back to the right seat of a 767 than the right seat of an rj. 116 if I go back, 61 if you go back. No brainer. Another 100 50 seaters parked this year alone. Where oh where will they come from?????????????