Delta Pilots Association - DPA

[TurboAWD]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but as a “regional” pilot, I’ll tell you what I feel entitled to:
I feel that I am entitled to some respect.
I feel that mainline pilots should recognize that I am not “steeling” their flying. They are “giving” it away every time they vote for a contract that reduces scope (noted- the 1113(c) process was a gun to the head).
I feel that mainline pilots should recognize that by allowing their company unlimited “regional” partners, without so much as stipulating that they be unionized, completely undermines my negotiating leverage.
I feel that senior mainline pilots who compare their career path to that of a young(er) pilot today are fooling themselves if they think it is the same.

Turbo

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Sorry to be a downer. BUT, minimum 10%(1200) more likely 15%-20% starting within the next 9-12 months.

 

[RedRum]

Not too much of a protectorate. More like what did the cat drag in - and I hear the sentiment is to cut them loose to form their own MEC ASAP. How long after that do you think they will attempt to rewrite the flow portion of their contract and thereby weaken furlough protection at DAL?

I hear your argument and totally agree that this would be attempted if we were to dissolve ourselves of Compass.

Fact of the matter is, Compass and Delta Air Lines have no choice in the matter. The flow up and flow down LOA is part of the JPWA. If any modifications were done it would have to be negotiated. Scary thought considering what was negotiated last week by our Negotiating Committee.

Here is little thread creep question for you though...

Has anyone spoken with any MEC officers and asked if they were in agreement with the direction the negotiating committee took to settle the 76 seat grievance?

The reason I ask is that I am afraid LM may be the one running the show here and he is not listening to the combined MEC. I have put my calls in to some of the MEC officers, including the negotiating chairman, and have not had any calls returned.

Any input on this would be appreciated. I think it will help us to understand who is running the show here and how cozy things are with Moak and management. At he special MEC meeting he admitted to having a good relationship with management which is not bad in itself, but when we continually have this scope creep and do NOTHING about it, one has to wonder if we need more of a militant stance.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff Driver:

Let me ask your response to this concept:

As we outsource flying our bargaining strength is decreased resulting in a long term negative trend of lower highs and lower lows.

I would agree to a certain extent. I would throw in that the negotiating environment has been less than friendly since C2K.

I would also throw in that our continuous outsourcing of flying STILL has us in control of events when it comes to leverage at Delta. No other entity flying for Delta can accomplish that. As of now, only one other entity working for Delta can approach it--the dispatchers. Pretty much only pilots can shut this airline down---should the need arise. IMO, we now have the populous which will indeed allow us to play that card if necessary.

I'm all for "taking it back" but we probably will have to do that through mergers. In the alternative we would have to exit ALPA (due to the legal conflict of interest) wait for a Section 6 opportunity and fight tooth and nail for scope.

Why do we have to leave ALPA? Delta has the option now for every 70 seater to be flown by Delta pilots. No doubt, there will be lawsuits from the idiots, but they'll sue again if they put the new Delta colors on their napkins claiming operational integration. They're just gonna sue, period.

Most regionals now have trip / duty rigs, 401K matching, performance incentives and profit sharing .... our insurance was worlds better. To sum up, a DAL pilot could bid the left seat of Compass to make more money under current contracts without costing you any of your bargaining capital.

Let's keep it real here. With regard to 401k, performance initiatives, work rules, YGTBSM. I went over to that other site to check out some info, and it's not even close. Let's just take Comair--since their is the "best" a max of .7 up to 5%. so a 100K pilot, who is contributing BTW gets 3500 from the company wheres the same pilot over here gets 12K and eventually 14k. That's just 401k. Nobody has profit sharing--which of course is moot if you are not making profits. However, if we hit the numbers they are projecting this year, we will each get about a months pay. I know nothing about their contracts, but I simply do not see, in my conversations with some of Mesaba, Comair former pilots, they the regionals are anywhere close to our contract. If APC is even in the same universe as the actual companies, the point is proven. There is MUCH to do in order to bring them up to par with us. You will not convince me to utilize the negotiating capital--let alone the necessary part of our workforce who won't even lend you an ear.

If we plotted outsourcing and your pay, with other airlines that do not outsource, you might be surprised to find that your bargaining power is increased as Delta pilots control more flying.

What airlines do not outsource? Allegiant, Spirit, Air Tran. Surely, you do not refer to SWA--they outsource. AirTran is about to from what I am hearing. I will take my compensation over theirs ANYDAY. Likewise with Spirit. Which leaves Allegiant, nuff said. I am waiting for the surprise, where is it? UPS, Fed Ex? Both outsource. I will also say that none of these airlines, including SWA have the scale that Delta has. We have yet to take the new Delta out for a spin to see what it will do. I will also add that none of these have been through BK, where you have the option to let the judge shoot you, or shoot yourself. I am looking forward to negotiations in a BK free environment, in a politically
more favorable environment, with hopefully a profitable company. Do I think that will happen? No. My next bet is AS in a merger, and then AF--that's Air France--in the following merger.

What else is a realistic way to reach our common goals?

Flow through, and regaining 70+ seat flying. That is our best bet. The kind of flow through that will get our MECs in close cooperation where the Mesaba and Comair MECs will want to cooperate in order not to lose their lucrative flow. I know you guys don't like to hear it, but that's about the best option, and it's pushing it at that. You've got 12k guys who will be chomping at the bit for a large raise due them, and rightfully so, in C12K. Trying to convince them to go after list mergers in order to get OTHER pilots raises is a non-starter. Trying to convince idiot Comair pilots of a staple prior to triggering merger policy is probably a non-starter as well. Anything less will be a non-starter with our guys. It is what it is.

 

[PuffDriver]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but as a “regional” pilot, I’ll tell you what I feel entitled to:
I feel that I am entitled to some respect.
I feel that mainline pilots should recognize that I am not “steeling” their flying. They are “giving” it away every time they vote for a contract that reduces scope (noted- the 1113(c) process was a gun to the head).
I feel that mainline pilots should recognize that by allowing their company unlimited “regional” partners, without so much as stipulating that they be unionized, completely undermines my negotiating leverage.
I feel that senior mainline pilots who compare their career path to that of a young(er) pilot today are fooling themselves if they think it is the same.

Turbo

Yawn. Blather, blather, blather. Another regional pilot demanding respect. Whodathunkit.

 

[michael707767]

Sorry to be a downer. BUT, minimum 10%(1200) more likely 15%-20% starting within the next 9-12 months.

I disagree. If things go as planned, I don't see any furloughs. If the economy gets worse, I see 300-500 tops. And I think the furloughs this time would be much shorter than last time.

 

[TurboAWD]

blah blah blah... another "major" pilot blaming their problems on regional pilots and ALPA, while not actually getting involved in the union.

What a surprise.

 

[PuffDriver]

blah blah blah... another "major" pilot blaming their problems on regional pilots and ALPA, while not actually getting involved in the union.

What a surprise.

Nope, check my posts. No blame outside of our group here. The credit for reigning it in will also go to the major pilots. Try again.

 

[TurboAWD]

If you can riegn it in, you deserve the credit. Just don't forget who let the cat out of the bag in the first place (hint: it wasn't regional pilots).

Turbo

 

[PuffDriver]

If you can riegn it in, you deserve the credit. Just don't forget who let the cat out of the bag in the first place (hint: it wasn't regional pilots).

Turbo

Never said they did. Of course, some did sue in order to try and reign in more. Lest we forget that little tidbit.