Delta Pilots Association - DPA

[Monster Buck]

They must really pump your head full of ******************** in indoc when you go to Delta. " You guys are now the cream of the crop youmistakenly assume it is egotistical when in reality it is pride in accomplishment. all airline pilots" and you morons believe it. I don't have the desire to go to a major (You shouldn't lie just because you couldn't get in) because it would negatively impact my quality of life for a long time Turn around time to get back the pay is about 2-3 years from any one of the regionals contracts, everything else is better day one.), not to mention the very real possibility of a furlough (when someone is hiring (Delta) no one is thinking about furlough. Not to mention your job right now is in just as much jeopardy. that I just cannot afford. Then you couple that with flying with some of these Delta pricks, and the fact that I just could never think that I was the uber pilot and all the little regional pukes should bow down. The bow down comes from your own shortcomings not Delta pilots. that together makes me think that I'd rather stay at ASA from your attitude it seems you have no other choice and bet on the fact that Delta pilots, as egotistical as they are, will never sacrifice a single penny in their contract for scope. Personally, I feel pretty secure at ASA, matter of fact, I think there will come a day when we are flying much larger aircraft because you guys can't quit compensating for having a little dick. Again it sounds like your shortcoming rather than the product of someone else.quote]

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

As an ASA pilot and ALPA volunteer, I will fight ALPA on any move to take my job and give a Delta pilot seniority above me. Fight all you want. If a flowthru/down becomes a priority for DALPA the airlines that play will get the DAL owned rjs shifted to them. ALPA had better be careful here. Many of us at ASA are on the fence about ALPA. Go ahead and leave. Your dues don't cover your costs anyway. We realize the benefits and do undertand the strengths of ALPA. We also are concerned about mainline pilots trying to take our jobs. Those jobs have been loaned out to you, always with the chance of the loan being called. There is a mutually beneficial solution if ALPA can find the leadership.

The only solutions I keep hearing from the rjdc types is that they want all the benefits of flow up, but all the rj seats protected in a flow down. Exactly, how does that benefit us?? A staple would be a homerun for 95% of the regionals and a flowdown would be the cost.

 

[Monster Buck]

Here's an idea, seat protection for all rj pilots for a minimum of 15 years, plus first crack at all upgrades on the rj go to all fo's of each regional on the senority list at the time of staple. The ability to bid into larger equipment when the new stapled senority number can hold it, and no furloughs of regional pilots unless there is a reduction in rj flying for five years. If the mainliners could agree to that i think you could work out a staple, but you guys don't want to compromise on anything, you just want to have your way and for all of us to just sit back and let you. As I talk to more and more captains at ASA and other carriers I find that most are not willing to sacrafice their present position for the chance to fly a bigger airplane for less money and alot less job security. The fact that regional contracts have gotten better coupled with more growth from scope erosion makes it harder and harder to make the jump. After this last downturn expires in another five years or longer I will have 11 years in at ASA, why would I or anyone else in my position sacrifice it all to jump to the bottom of a list and never have the chance to upgrade again. With the mergers going on now any new hires or the most junior pilots on the new list are looking at a minimum of twenty years to upgrade. For me, I just don't see the benefit of changing lanes.

You are blowing this out of proportion to make youself feel better about not getting to a major yet. I'll bet if Delta started hiring you would be one of the first to get your resume in without telling anyone! "Sacrifice it all" give me a break stop being so melodramatic.

 

[Monster Buck]

When I started in this business...that was the plan...Plans change however....

3 downturns (early 90's, early 00's, and current) later it doesn't make sense anymore from a QOL standpoint....My single biggest issue is QOL and time off....including time off when I want it....

I don't have SJS...In fact now that I am on the RJ, I can honestly say that I like the ATR more.....

Many who left...regret leaving....Many who left....returned after their next few carriers went TU....and yes many have no regrets leaving....There is no way to know what the "right" answer is until such time as you retire and look back.....

I'll leave you with this....In my recent RJ training....I had an instructor who left ASA and did tours with both Eastern and Pan Am....Now he is back at ASA with less longevity and seniority....He is junior to me now.....Any of you "career expectations" advocates want to tell me what his "career expectations" are?[/quote]


Are you serious? Your basing this feeling on "a guy" "one guy"? or a few you know or heard of. Even if you count all the guys that are furloughed at the majors and assume that they are all screwed forever( which is far from reality) that still wouldn't break 10 to15 percent of all the pilots that go to the majors. Man with that way of looking at things you must be scared to even go outside!

 

[DTW320]

I'll leave you with this....In my recent RJ training....I had an instructor who left ASA and did tours with both Eastern and Pan Am....Now he is back at ASA with less longevity and seniority....He is junior to me now.....Any of you "career expectations" advocates want to tell me what his "career expectations" are?

Eastern and PanAm? Haven't they been gone for about 20 years now? All of the ex-EAL and ex-PanAM pilots I have met are in the left seat of the A320/757 or very senior in the right seat of the 747-400 at NWA. Sounds like your SIM instructor is an "underachiever"....or has some other "issues".

Poor choice to make your "career expectations" point IMO.

 

[TurboAWD]

How you figure??? We (the majors) carry the financial burden at ALPA. Without us, it is bankrupt and gone. I would prefer to stay ALPA but I don't feel we get our value from them anymore, due to natl. being afraid of thier shadow and not clearly explaining what the role/risk is to be a subcontracter.
They have done a terrible job explaining that as a subcontracter you have NO RIGHTS to any flying. At some point some of you (RJDC, LIFERs) felt this loaned out flying is yours. Its not, and ALPA has failed to address this.

It's a UNION. We all do better when we work together. Your pay is effected by the pay pilots at regionals get. And you are right... we don't own the flying we get. But perhaps we should. It would bring stability to the regionals, which would allow us to get higher pay, which would eventually benefit you.

Turbo

 

[N2264J]

Lol. You don't get it. If we need this flow-down agreement, Delta will put pressure on ASA to get it...They will threaten you with more furloughs than if they didn't. I've seen flow-downs happen before. The regional pilots almost never want it.

Yeah, so mainline pilots conspire with management to take the left seats of other union members who, from the standpoint of Comair pilots, are prevented from negotiating with their real management by ALPA.

Boasting about how much greener the grass is at mainline, they work behind the scenes to steal captain positions from fellow union members at the regional that would otherwise be an inferior job below their station in life. Why? - because they can.

All the while, they peddle this myth that the mainline MECs are the standard-bearers of lynchpin union values and everybody in the association is represented equally.

Hooligans. This setup is absolutely corrupt.

 

[ROSWELL41]

None of these discussions about taking back 76 seat flying mean anything unless management wants to bring the flying back - which they are already doing to a degree by cutting back on 50 seaters (Isn't this what is happening with Cmr now?) and and trying to dump Mesa, and now Skywest for contractual non-performance.

DAL can simply choose not to renegotiate contracts and pick up the lift with mainline acft and your company and jobs start to evaporate. Then you have no job, and it wasn't even ALPA.

If I was King and saw this trend evolving, I'd just sit back and let you spin yourself up and watch your RJDC head explode, enjoy the flying that comes back to the mainline, and not have to deal with all the ankle biting from the RJ ranks.

Too bad the morons running your agenda spoil it for the vast majority who realize even a staple is a immensley good deal.

I haven't heard anything about Delta dumping SkyWest for contractual non performance. The lawsuit that is pending is SkyWest suing Delta because Delta has withheld money owed to SkyWest for IROPs stuff.

 

[PuffDriver]

Yeah, so mainline pilots conspire with management to take the left seats of other union members who, from the standpoint of Comair pilots, are prevented from negotiating with their real management by ALPA.

Boasting about how much greener the grass is at mainline, they work behind the scenes to steal captain positions from fellow union members at the regional that would otherwise be an inferior job below their station in life. Why? - because they can.

All the while, they peddle this myth that the mainline MECs are the vessels of lynchpin union values and everybody in the association is represented equally.

Hooligans. This setup is absolutely corrupt.

You are a contract employee. Your job is subject to revocation. Your contracted management company is Comair. Nothing will be stolen. It will be cancelled. Your job has always hinged on the contract between Delta and its pilots, of which you are not one.

Deal with it, Poindexter.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Yeah, so mainline pilots conspire with management to take the left seats of other union members who, from the standpoint of Comair pilots, are prevented from negotiating with their real management by ALPA.

Boasting about how much greener the grass is at mainline, they work behind the scenes to steal captain positions from fellow union members at the regional that would otherwise be an inferior job below their station in life. Why? - because they can.

All the while, they peddle this myth that the mainline MECs are the standard-bearers of lynchpin union values and everybody in the association is represented equally.

Hooligans. This setup is absolutely corrupt.

That's just the way it is. We do not want your left seat. I would rather stay in my right seat in the A-320 than the left seat of a E-175, but when we start having our DC-9's replaced by CONTRACT regional feed and end up with more pilots than airplanes, we feel the left seat of our replacement jets is better than the street. You are flying under the Delta shell. Your airline does not sell tickets. You can be replaced at any time. The one that comes to mind is ACA with United. They tried to be a real airline and didn't make it. So did part of Expressjet. When it comes time to renew your airline's contract, Delta can and will threaten to not renew it unless you put a flow-down agreement in it. If your contract is not up for a while, Delta can threaten to terminate it as soon as it is up if your airline doesn't ammend it. This has happened before at other airlines and will happen again. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

 

[outtahere]

You are blowing this out of proportion to make youself feel better about not getting to a major yet. I'll bet if Delta started hiring you would be one of the first to get your resume in without telling anyone! "Sacrifice it all" give me a break stop being so melodramatic.

Well lets see, Delta was hiring for about a year and a half, didn't apply. You junior guys at Delta are the ones screaming about flow downs right now because you know that your butt is in a sling with the furlough coming. Fortunately for all of us uneducated backwoods regional pylits we are at least smart enough to see your ploy from a mile away. So go ahead and believe that your going to get a flow down into an Rj that doesn't belong to you because you sold it. Yes we are contractors, I don't have a problem with it. Matter of fact when your senior guys sell you down the river again and we get more airplanes, i'll be fine with that too. Don't believe it will happen? Just ask General Lee who swore up, down, left, and right that we would never see anything bigger than a 700, he was wrong just like you are. No one at the reionals wants to take your job, guess thats a difference between us, but if there is going to be a staple, we will be treated fairly. You might think you can bully us into taking what you give, but I think you will be surprised.

 

[GogglesPisano]

This thread is the most effective recruitment tool for an inhouse union anyone could ask for.

Time to separate mainline and regional pilots on a representational level (the separation on an intellectual level is well evident these last few pages.)

Where do I sign up?

 

[eaglesview]

That's just the way it is. We do not want your left seat. I would rather stay in my right seat in the A-320 than the left seat of a E-175, but when we start having our DC-9's replaced by CONTRACT regional feed and end up with more pilots than airplanes, we feel the left seat of our replacement jets is better than the street. You are flying under the Delta shell. Your airline does not sell tickets. You can be replaced at any time. The one that comes to mind is ACA with United. They tried to be a real airline and didn't make it. So did part of Expressjet. When it comes time to renew your airline's contract, Delta can and will threaten to not renew it unless you put a flow-down agreement in it. If your contract is not up for a while, Delta can threaten to terminate it as soon as it is up if your airline doesn't ammend it. This has happened before at other airlines and will happen again. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

Actually that would be fair.

 

[eaglesview]

This thread is the most effective recruitment tool for an inhouse union anyone could ask for.

Time to separate mainline and regional pilots on a representational level.
Where do I sign up?

Amen to that

 

[Monster Buck]

It's a UNION. We all do better when we work together. Your pay is effected by the pay pilots at regionals get. And you are right... we don't own the flying we get. But perhaps we should. It would bring stability to the regionals, which would allow us to get higher pay, which would eventually benefit you.

Turbo

The last regional to own their own flying was Independence Airlines.

 

[Monster Buck]

Well lets see, Delta was hiring for about a year and a half, didn't apply. You junior guys at Delta are the ones screaming about flow downs right now because you know that your butt is in a sling with the furlough coming. Fortunately for all of us uneducated backwoods regional pylits we are at least smart enough to see your ploy from a mile away. So go ahead and believe that your going to get a flow down into an Rj that doesn't belong to you because you sold it. Yes we are contractors, I don't have a problem with it. Matter of fact when your senior guys sell you down the river again and we get more airplanes, i'll be fine with that too. Don't believe it will happen? Just ask General Lee who swore up, down, left, and right that we would never see anything bigger than a 700, he was wrong just like you are. No one at the reionals wants to take your job, guess thats a difference between us, but if there is going to be a staple, we will be treated fairly. You might think you can bully us into taking what you give, but I think you will be surprised.

Hold on there a minute. You must be confusing me with someone else that you replied to. One, I never said regional pilots wanted to take my job, are there some that would(lifer regional)? ,yes, but I wasn't speaking that of the whole. Second our scope is our problem. I don't hold it personally against anyone who flies a DCI regional jet, that is for my MEC to worry about. As long as it is inside the scope giddy up. I never called anyone a backwoods uneducated regional pilot. Lastly all I was doing is calling you out on the "never wanted to be there in the first place attitude".

The truth, as I see it, is that you unfortunately didn't get in on a few cycles of hiring. Then as time passed, with the feeling of many more years of stagnant hiring, you don't see it happening. So you are holding tight to your job(which is fine) and pissed off with the idea of someone from the majors bumping you back after you felt that they took their chances. They get the furlough they deserve. Which again is fine. BUT the difference between you and me is that I never claimed to have not wanted the Major, blew it out of proportion to say "sacrifice it all" "twenty year upgrades" calling Delta pilots "morons and Pricks""never have a chance to upgrade" and on and on.....That my friend is fear and resentment talking, and you are taking it out on everyone else. Check the mirror jack.

 

[N2264J]

You are a contract employee. Your job is subject to revocation.

That's just the way it is...we feel the left seat of our replacement jets is better than the street. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

This thread is the most effective recruitment tool for an inhouse union anyone could ask for...Where do I sign up?

So why do Delta pilots shop the pretense of a national union at all? They obviously have no concept of union outside their own cult.

For example: the outrage they fake when a Skywest or jetBlue vote ALPA down - where does that come from? They seem to get their feeling hurt when a pilot group says "I want no part of that." Their reputation as "partners with management" precedes them.

Fascinating tap dance to watch.

 

[PuffDriver]

So why do Delta pilots shop the pretense of a national union at all? They obviously have no concept of union outside their own cult.

For example: the outrage they fake when a Skywest or jetBlue vote ALPA down - where does that come from? They seem to get their feeling hurt when a pilot group says "I want no part of that." Their reputation as "partners with management" precedes them.

Fascinating tap dance to watch.

Speaking of tap dancing, let's break down the art of 22's tap dancing. I will do this with a hypothetical scenario between N2264J and his spouse. The part of him will be played by me, the part of his wife will be played by me. In it, you will see the mastery of how he manages to change topic when the subject isn't going his way.

N2264J argument with spouse:


N2264J Spouse: Would you please explain this cell phone number all over the bill that I don't recognize

N2264J: Why do you do that?

N2264J Spouse: Do what?

N2264J: Always talk with that weird accent when you say the word "explain"

N2264J Spouse: What does that have to do with an explanation of a suspicious phone number on the bill?

N2264J: There it is again. That really annoys me to no end.

N2264J Spouse: Fine, I'll try to refrain from doing it, now about this phone...

N2264J: (Interrupting) Great, now I'm late to go fly one of the approximately 4,152 aircraft in my FI profile. I hope your happy. (Storms out of the room)


The preceding was purely fictional. All characters are fictitious, but based on actual events.