Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[Cobraair75drvr]

Just a thought. Since this is an anonymous board unlike the alpa board where we can look at a seniority list to see one's current seniority/doh/posistion, how about we give our posistion and hire date only here. By doing so it will give us some idea where someone is coming from as far as sli, however still keeping anonymity. What say you boys/girls. Fins, acl, fdj2, puffy, occam, nuguy,shwank, etc. I will go first: doh 95, 319/320A.

 

[Fly4hire]

What say you boys/girls. Fins, acl, fdj2, puffy, occam, nuguy,shwank, etc. I will go first: doh 95, 319/320A.

4/98 757B (displaced DC9A)

 

[RedRum]

We are both contract employee groups

You're kidding, right?

Two pilot groups vying for the upper hand in a SLI and you don't think that symantics of "acquisition" vs. "merger" will be brought up?

Go jumpseat on DAL and ask the pilots how they think the SLI should go. I can guarantee that you will hear the words "acquisition" and "bought" used liberally, and the word "merger" will be absent from the conversation.

Frank,

You should know this as you know the process involved with mergers.

No pilot, Delta or Northwest, should feel more entitled than the other when it comes to the "deal." You can call it waht you want (merger or acquisition). This deal was a stock swap with Delta maintaining the name and headquarters.

Currently Delta pilots are under contract to fly for Delta Airlines. This means that you are contract employees that just happen to fly for Delta Airlines Inc through a PWA between ALPA and Delta Airlines. Northwest pilots are under contract to fly for Northwest Airlines Inc through their CBA between ALPA and Northwest Airlines. Do you see where I am going here? It doesn't matter whether you are a Delta pilot or a Northwest pilot. When the DCC occurs, we are all one pilot group who come from different carriers and are now going to be merged in to one. Just because a Delta pilots wants to use the word ACQUISITION doesn't change the fact that they were just contract employees that work for Delta in the first place.

So you can call it what you want. The new Delta is going to be comprised of a larger pilot group working as contract employees for Delta Airlines, Inc. A Delta pilot cannot say they deserve more seniority because they were a contract employee of the new carrier that just so happens to be called Delta.

Northwest could have easily "acquired" Delta and the same would be true for the Northwest pilots. This feeling of entitlement is what got the US Airways boys and girls in trouble. The sooner both groups grasp the fact that career expectations are an old way of thinking and that this is a merger of equals, the sooner we can get the show on the road and move on with things.

You can call it what you want, but an arbitrator is going to look at this as a merger of equals. The arbitrator's charter and goal is to creat a fair and equitable list of pilots to move forward at the new company...not to creat a windfall based on lopsided demands and expectations of one pilot group.

We have already been down this road at Northwest. The Red Book pilots beat down the Republic guys badly with their career expectations. I can only hope that the Delta pilots not try to follow the same path. Honestly I think the arbitrators will be able to see beyond unreasonable expectations and look at our companies as equals.

 

[~~~^~~~]

An arbitrator is going to look at this as a merger of equals. The arbitrator's charter and goal is to creat a fair and equitable list of pilots to move forward at the new company...not to creat a windfall based on lopsided demands and expectations of one pilot group.

We have already been down this road at Northwest. The Red Book pilots beat down the Republic guys badly with their career expectations. I can only hope that the Delta pilots not try to follow the same path. Honestly I think the arbitrators will be able to see beyond unreasonable expectations and look at our companies as equals.

Good post, IMHO.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Cobra and Fly:

Early to mid 2007 hires at Delta are line holders on the 757/767B, 767 ER category and MD88. I don't know if any are lineholders on the 737-NG yet. The 737 pilots tend to stay there, while the 757 and ER category had a growth spurt that sucked some new hires up the list on that aircraft.

No 2007 hire has gotten the 777, or M88A - but they are close. Everything depends on backfill and they are so short on the MD88 that I think they will have to back fill there. The merger might result in these positions going more senior during the next bid.

Of course it would not be my expectation that 2007 hires would be above, or even near, you on the seniority list. Delta has some VERY senior Fist Officers on the 757/767 that aren't going anywhere. The concern many 07 hires have is getting put below the DC9 pilots when the final outsourcing of that airplane happens.

The official word is that the DC9 is going to be around for a while, maybe long enough to make these concerns a non-issue. I hope so. My math indicates that Delta management would be nuts to keep that airplane in service (maybe Occam's right and they will come to us begging for us to work out relief for Compass, I dunno)

 

[Schwanker]

Cobra and Fly:


Of course it would not be my expectation that 2007 hires would be above, or even near, you on the seniority list. Delta has some VERY senior Fist Officers on the 757/767 that aren't going anywhere. The concern many 07 hires have is getting put below the DC9 pilots when the final outsourcing of that airplane happens.

In another post, you and ACL were just stating mother DAL is now calling the shots with respect to the NWA fleet. NWA does not plan on parking the 9s. If DAL does as a combined company, the results should come from the combined list. Of course, your position is only the career expections of NERDS (Not Real Delta Pilots) should have a negative result of a combined operating decision. Why doesn't this surprise me.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

"I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."

Go away... or I shall taunt you a second time!!

CE

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fact is the the bottom of the list will be the new hires either way. Doing displacements/furloughs after SLI allows them to place them at DAL in seniority order at the bottom. A few LOA's will accomplish this.
Of course it is "illegal" for DAL to control anything at NWA currently, but were any of us born yesterday? really?
Look at the whole picture, connect the dots and realize that you LOA to CNX displacements, our LOA to prevent hiring, etc, all point to something bigger that is going to occur after DCC. Word is what has been stated. Legally it can be done, and with another LOA from the combined union makes it legal. I am sure that it is all in the works.

 

[~~~^~~~]

NWA does not plan on parking the 9s. If DAL does as a combined company, the results should come from the combined list.

yeah, whatever, newsflash....

Northwest Airlines has plans to downsize its fleet, grounding one-quarter of its DC-9 planes over the course of the year, the company confirmed Monday. Eagan-based Northwest (NYSE: NWA) sent a note to pilots last week, informing them of its intent to cut its fleet of 103 DC-9s to 68 by the end of 2008.

Domestic flying by Northwest pilots -- called mainline capacity -- is expected to drop 18 to 19 percent in the fourth quarter when compared with last year's final quarter. However, not all of those seats will disappear. This year, Northwest has been shifting a good portion of mainline seats to regional carriers, which have lower labor and fuel costs.
During the second half of this year, Northwest's regional flying is expected to grow by 50 to 55 percent.

Well isn't the latest update parking 47 of them as they are replaced by Compass and Mesaba? Are you going to send me searching for NWA's quarterly conference call quotes, again? At $3.68 a gallon we're headed right back to bankruptcy if we try to fly these things head to head against 717's, second gen CRJ's or E170 / 190's. I'd love it if they would re-engine those DC9's and keep them around, but it isn't happening.

You are correct that Delta pilots caught below these DC9's would be negatively effected by their disposal.

Relative seniority, by equipment, protects the status quo.

 

[Schwanker]

NWA is currently staffed for the announced 9s being parked. The ute rates on the rest could rise driving hiring on the NWA side--they haven't been that high historically. Keep spouting your BS.

Schwanker

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What six months and see who is correct. It will take till about then for the dust to settle.
Also I cannot see many DAL pilots being put below the DC-9. SLI by seat and pay on previous contract shows that would really difficult to do.

 

[FDJ2]

Go away... or I shall taunt you a second time!!

CE

Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!

:beer:

 

[MXAV8R]

Cobra and Fly:

Early to mid 2007 hires at Delta are line holders on the 757/767B, 767 ER category and MD88. I don't know if any are lineholders on the 737-NG yet. The 737 pilots tend to stay there, while the 757 and ER category had a growth spurt that sucked some new hires up the list on that aircraft.

Late 2007-early2008 hires are LINEHOLDERS in LAX on the 73N. Anything close to this at NWA? Yeah, didn't think so...

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!

:beer:

This is the best part of the thread. :nuts:

CE

 

[Superpilot92]

Late 2007-early2008 hires are LINEHOLDERS in LAX on the 73N. Anything close to this at NWA? Yeah, didn't think so...

2007 and early 2008 NWA pilots are BLOCKHOLDERS on the DC9 and the whale in the SO position. (But since a number of DAL pilots feel those positions are below them that probably doesnt mean much )