Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[FDJ2]

Heyas,

Fod what it's worth, I just got finished with a two year stint teaching at a local college. Using Wikipedia as a reference for anything was an automatic 'F' on a paper.

Nu

"I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."

 

[PuffDriver]

Puffy,

It Was A Joke.

Have a beer......maybe get laid.....you are WAY too uptight. Typical though....

Describing your last "rotation"? (see, I'm learning new words!)

There is no game, there was no set, you did not win a match.

Yawn, yep, right on time. The "go get laid" approach. Mr. Substantive in his prime.

Yawn, anyone else? It appears as if we have finally admitted that it IS an acquisition, and that such an argument MAY be made at the arbitration, and that it may or may not make a difference. My work is done here. NWA guys carry on with your fodder. Perhaps another crack about my ego, double breasted coats, hats, speling, sexual shortcomings, etc, etc, etc.

You guys are too easy. Hope you can drink at least.

 

[GogglesPisano]

"I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."

<<<<<<<-------- I resemble that remark!

 

[DTW320]

Hope you can drink at least.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious you've been doing a lot of that before posting here. Who said anything about your sexual shortcomings??? Freudian slip? Unwind however you like, but seriously......Unwind.

 

[Noserider76]

Who said anything about your sexual shortcomings??? Freudian slip? Unwind however you like, but seriously......Unwind.

Might have been the tube sock comment from a couple pages back in this insane thread. I tried it but the damned thing slipped to the back. Doesn't have quite the same effect there............

 

[Schwanker]

Might have been the tube sock comment from a couple pages back in this insane thread. I tried it but the damned thing slipped to the back. Doesn't have quite the same effect there............

Yeah, but who said anything about his two breasts??

 

[IXLR8]

Hey now!!!!

Remember, Richard Anderson told us many times that we (NWA) are the best in the business. I heard it several times. Now that he is at Delta, I guess with the "merger" he is just trying to bring Delta up to our standards?

 

[Going2Baja]

LOL....NICE!!

Baja.

 

[FDJ2]

<<<<<<<-------- I resemble that remark!

"If she weighed the same as a duck... she's made of wood."

:beer:

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Fins and Puff Daddy,

Help me understand your and puffys idea of relative seniority. IF those 2007 hires really get onto the 777 or 88A do you really believe that should blend in with 96 or 97 dohs from our side? If that is what dalpas idea of relative seniority is you are suggesting a essentially a staple of the last 1500-2000 nwa pilots with the bulk being hired prior to 2000. I don't believe the arbitration panel would agree either. I understand relative to be relative. 59% today 59% manana. Anything other than that would be a win fall for y'all. If there is a gross disparity of dohs, I predict a very angry unmotivated portion of the seniority list. Not good for any of us, nor the success of the company.

I've not heard the term "acquisition" used anywhere but here. I hear the word "merger" used very frequently. The outcome of pilots debating semantic terms is nothing more than a diversion for bored pilots. I do believe that in the long run, both Delta and NWA pilots will see gains from this transaction.

The NWA pilots will have to adjust to the Delta way of doing things. Delta's flight standards, uniforms, policies and procedures remain after the transaction. There is not any point in fighting it. Others may have been harsh, but it will be a lot easier for NWA pilots to accept what they can not change.

What is more relevant is the objective changes in fleet numbers, the SLOA allowing Delta MD88 pilots to fly over their ALV caps, canceled displacements and growth aircraft. I am more interested in how arbitrators meet their obligation to meet, or improve on, status quo.

Frankly, at the junior end of the list, that is going to be difficult work. Delta's 2007 hires are holding (block in NWA speak) lines on the 757 and 767 both domestic and international. On the MD88's they are pretty senior in the right seat. Another big advanced entitlement for growth comes out on the DAL side in October. It looks possible that a few out of the class of 07 may even get on the 777, or MD88A in NYC. Those results should be available before the arbitration is final. (not that I'm leaving any facts out about NWA, I just don't know if you are doing advancement bids)

If past results are useful for prediction of future outcomes then I expect relative seniority, by equipment. That still does not address the base issues, but if given the choice between NYC, MSP, or DTW, they are about a toss up. I think we will all miss NWA's commuting language.

JMHO

 

[General Lee]

Fins and Puff Daddy,

Help me understand your and puffys idea of relative seniority. IF those 2007 hires really get onto the 777 or 88A do you really believe that should blend in with 96 or 97 dohs from our side? If that is what dalpas idea of relative seniority is you are suggesting a essentially a staple of the last 1500-2000 nwa pilots with the bulk being hired prior to 2000. I don't believe the arbitration panel would agree either. I understand relative to be relative. 59% today 59% manana. Anything other than that would be a win fall for y'all. If there is a gross disparity of dohs, I predict a very angry unmotivated portion of the seniority list. Not good for any of us, nor the success of the company.

I think there will be some wiggle room with respect to aircraft size and payscale, but mostly will be relative seniority. If you are in the bottom 5% of your company, you will be in the bottom 5% of the merged company. You can say NWA has more senior guys, but they also still have a frozen pension, and a lot more smaller, older planes. NWA hired 160 something guys since recalling the furloughed pilots, and Delta hired almost 600. I just don't think those 760 pilots will be at the bottom exclusively. Also, I know NWA will have a bunch of retirements in the next few years. The DL side will have the same amount about 5 years after that. Both of those will benefit all of us remaining pilots.

The one thing that may throw a lot of this off, though, is payscale. We are all negotiating this with the "old" payscales, and that does not help the NWA side, since a 3rd year pilot at DL is easily on the 767 making $100 an hour, and at NWA that 3rd year guy might be on the minibus, but probably on the DC9, and making a lot less. That will be the wildcard with the arbitrators. We shall see.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

Fins and Puff Daddy,

Help me understand your and puffys idea of relative seniority. IF those 2007 hires really get onto the 777 or 88A do you really believe that should blend in with 96 or 97 dohs from our side? If that is what dalpas idea of relative seniority is you are suggesting a essentially a staple of the last 1500-2000 nwa pilots with the bulk being hired prior to 2000.

Cobra,

Got to remember Fins is a 06' or 07' hire - course he's hoping for that.

Funny how we use DOH for determining everything within in each seniority list, but suddenly it's meaningless in a merger? If DOH is used at all, most of the post 2001 DAL hires end up at the bottom of the combined list - where they would be in any other situation other than these SLI arbitrations.

Best case might be DOH, with no bump/no flush (I thinks it's already in one of merger side letters), then a ratio'd relative list.

I don't think any one wants to bump anyone on either side, and if all of RA's sunshine predictions for our future hold true shouldn't be an issue.

Assuming SOC is not until late 09' or 10' and DAL's (antiquated) quarterly/semi-annual AE system it'll be the middle of 10' or even 11' before anyone is bidding over someone else - plenty of time to get in the position your seniority/lifestyle can hold.

As always, if you are a bottom feeder on a high paying piece of equipment, you stand a good chance of staying there or being bumped regardless. It always sucks to be junior.

Hopefully with a 3 person panel we will arrive at a balanced solution that will avoid the USAir fallout and be enough motivation to move both groups toward a better negotiated SLI on there own. Sadly my perception based on what I have seen and heard to date, that will only happen if DALPA perceives they are going to get slammed in the arbitration - I get the impession they will be happy to pillage us on SLI if given the opportunity. No one I have spoken to on our MEC feels that way about the DAL group - everyone wants a SLI solution that quickly allows for a harmonious pilot group and avoids the spectre of a USAir scenario.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Look at prior arbitrated mergers. Look at the logic that Arbitrators have used in their rulings. Look at the obligation Arbitrators have to maintain, or improve on, STATUS QUO.

Stack the airline by what each pilot can hold (not actual bid since some pilots bid by QOL) and then apply relative seniority.

I anticipate a range between relative seniority and relative seniority, by equipment. I base these expectations on history (since that's all I've got).

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins and Puff Daddy,

Help me understand .... If that is what dalpas idea of relative seniority is you are suggesting a essentially a staple of the last 1500-2000 nwa pilots with the bulk being hired prior to 2000.

Well, that is the final solution NWA proffered and then withdrew, leading to the deadlock.

It is difficult at the bottom of the list because there is a big difference in the status quo.

How would you adjust for the fact that Delta simply brings more, bigger, equipment to the table? I'm just asking? (Big fences?)

The mood of most people I fly with is that the Delta MEC already took a position that conceded too much to gain NWA's agreement. Most (make that everyone that I've flown with) expect a better outcome in Arbitration than would be reached by consent.

If anyone too upset, they know what they can do. I've already been out on a couple job interviews (wonder if AIG's flight department is still hiring )

 

[Noserider76]

Sadly my perception based on what I have seen and heard to date, that will only happen if DALPA perceives they are going to get slammed in the arbitration - I get the impession they will be happy to pillage us on SLI if given the opportunity. No one I have spoken to on our MEC feels that way about the DAL group - everyone wants a SLI solution that quickly allows for a harmonious pilot group and avoids the spectre of a USAir scenario.

The problem is that everyone's idea of what getting slammed is is different. Under a perfect scenario everyone should at least end up as well off as they are now and no one should expect a windfall that gives them something they had no expectations of prior to the merger. Seems like a very reasonable statement to me but I bet there are many out there who won't even agree with that.

It's my opinion that you can't look back at the result and see only the numbers. You have to look at the total effect on your current career and future expectations based on today's environment.