Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[Full of LUV]

What was the alternative????

Ha Ha and a tip of the hat. Occam's exactly correct and both airlines held hands when they went skinny dipping together.

But can anyone believe what happened to WaMu share and bondholders? The government just came in and sold something someone else owned while making the unilateral decision that investments made in good faith were nothing, meaningless, a phantom. Twenty six Billion ... gone as a result of a government bureaucrat's unilateral decision? Sold to a third party for an undisclosed price? The owners were not even in the loop. This is third world bullcrap!

First, I don't think our Constitution allows this. Second, China is now more capitalist than we are. In principle, no investment is worth anything. Our market is what, exactly?

I'm close to thinking a half million of my own money is worthless and maybe the best option is a garden in the back yard and a shotgun which eventually will be presented to "revenuers" when the property taxes on my owned property, or value to a third party, are worth taking it from me.

Sorry for the rant. Our market, isn't a market. Un-fricken-believeable. McCain isn't a smart economist, but at least he is engaged. Obama's doing what Obama does.

Maybe the name of this merger is bail out.

At least when the Russians did this the proletariat had the satisfaction of chopping the Bolshevik's heads off.

Three of five of Lenin's economic cornerstones of his "New Economic Deal" were accomplished within the last week. Bush's legacy IMHO. The Executive branch stops on his desk. History will not be kind, unless they re-write history to a state approved version.

I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Thomas Jefferson

Fins,
What was the alternative? You say the government didn't have a stake, but they did, a huge one! They had FDIC insurance and to see WAMU just go bankrupt and become worthless would have actually resulted in a bigger bill to the govenrment. If you take the governments insurance, you take the regulation and oversight. The FDIC prevents a massive run on banks, which would have probably happened this week, one of the factors that caused the great depression.
True capitalism would have seen many financial institutions fail to exist this week, but can the rest of America withstand the 10 year funk that would result from that, probably downright depression with deflation.
Sorry about your investment loss.
Luv

 

[Bringupthebird]

Yes those banks should have gone out of business and America needs to face up to it's reality as a debtor nation. I'm not sure we have the economic health and in frastructure necessary to pull out of a depression this time. When you have no industrial backbone, America becomes an economic Blanch Dubois, relying on the kindness of other (i.e. mooch/whore).

Mr. and Mrs. America need to stop listening to those who tell you how rich you are because you can handle making the minimum payments on your credit cards. Facing up to the financial realities, for individuals and the nation as a whole, means paying the true costs of enjoying a middle class borne of cheap imports and at the same time accepting a lower standard of living- the one that we've really earned.

 

[jetflier]

It is most certainly not an acquisition!

Lets see...

Delta gives Northwest's shareholders stock in exchange for Northwest to give Delta's shareholders stock. Stocks swaps have never been how acquisitions are done. If this is not a merger, please explain to me how a merger is structured.

It amazes me how simple minded some pilots can be. Do you think Delta is the buyer because the new company name is Delta? If that is the case then I guess US Airways must have bought America West.

By the way, of the top nine executives to run the new Delta, eight of them have spent time working for Northwest. Ed Bastian is the ONLY Delta guy and they are sending him away to run the Northwest subsidiary during the transition! So...Maybe Northwest is taking over Delta!

Northwest is buying itself. If not then why aren't the top executives Delta ? After all, Delta is buying NWA,...or is it ?

 

[PuffDriver]

I understand both MEC's Acquisition Committees will present their cases in LA next week.

The lists will be merged...not acquired. That is what matters to us, the pilots.

The corporate event matters only to the dorks who believe they went "bankrupt" when their airline did.

Beware of small-weenied dinks who think the type of corporate transaction has bearing on the Arbitration Panel. (Hint: The Process LOA eliminates that possibility)

Are you that dense? When has there EVER been ACQUISITION COMMITTEEs regarding any type of airline combination? It's pretty simple: Delta is acquiring NWA. The argument will likely be made in the hearings. I fully expect NWA to argue vigorously for their seniority as well. Perhaps they will even pull the old "premium" widebody flying argument again. You need to go read the process LOA again.

 

[Fly4hire]

The argument will likely be made in the hearings. I fully expect NWA to argue vigorously for their seniority as well. Perhaps they will even pull the old "premium" widebody flying argument again. You need to go read the process LOA again.

You guys are telegraphing your strategy too easily. I hope you are pinning your arbitration on something better than that. Maybe you should get to take our woman and property as spoils of a vanquished foe as well?

The DAL pilots and MEC are not acquiring the NWA pilots and MEC regardless of what the corporate transaction is called our how it is structured.

As far as the pilots and operations this is very much a combining of equals. Get over it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Guess what, the hearing are going to be open, so you will get to see what are strategy is then.

 

[PuffDriver]

You guys are telegraphing your strategy too easily. I hope you are pinning your arbitration on something better than that. Maybe you should get to take our woman and property as spoils of a vanquished foe as well?

The DAL pilots and MEC are not acquiring the NWA pilots and MEC regardless of what the corporate transaction is called our how it is structured.

As far as the pilots and operations this is very much a combining of equals. Get over it.

You just have to love the drama. It is an acquisition. I can learn to fly an airbus or a -400 in the same amount of time it takes a NWA pilot to learn a 777. Widebody flying is widebody flying. Both merger committees will fight like hell for the best possible outcome for their respective side. Acquirer or acquiree will make about as much difference as widebody flying vs premium widebody flying. I am saying no more and no less. There will be hats and jackets. NWA will wear both. Yes, there have been instances of hat police out there. The crybaby NWA pilots can start getting over it any day now, for you are starting to sound like Comair pilots

 

[Schwanker]

You just have to love the drama. It is an acquisition. I can learn to fly an airbus or a -400 in the same amount of time it takes a NWA pilot to learn a 777. Widebody flying is widebody flying. Both merger committees will fight like hell for the best possible outcome for their respective side. Acquirer or acquiree will make about as much difference as widebody flying vs premium widebody flying. I am saying no more and no less. There will be hats and jackets. NWA will wear both. Yes, there have been instances of hat police out there. The crybaby NWA pilots can start getting over it any day now, for you are starting to sound like Comair pilots

Puff-
Most DAL guys I know are taking this in stride and just want to get the SLI behind us. You sound like a real Juliet Alpha. Hopefully someday us sucky NWA guys can be as cool as you! I would like to think (and do) you don't represent the majority of DAL guys.

Schwanker

 

[Superpilot92]

You just have to love the drama. It is an acquisition. I can learn to fly an airbus or a -400 in the same amount of time it takes a NWA pilot to learn a 777. Widebody flying is widebody flying. Both merger committees will fight like hell for the best possible outcome for their respective side. Acquirer or acquiree will make about as much difference as widebody flying vs premium widebody flying. I am saying no more and no less. There will be hats and jackets. NWA will wear both. Yes, there have been instances of hat police out there. The crybaby NWA pilots can start getting over it any day now, for you are starting to sound like Comair pilots

Here lies a perfect example of the "children" i spoke of in my previous post. Grow up moron, you're like a 13 year old girl trying to keep a worthless argument going.

The majority of individuals realize this is out of our hands and are going to make the best of it. I for one look forward to working together and moving past these ridiculous rants.

cheers :beer:

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff-
Most DAL guys I know are taking this in stride and just want to get the SLI behind us. You sound like a real Juliet Alpha. Hopefully someday us sucky NWA guys can be as cool as you! I would like to think (and do) you don't represent the majority of DAL guys.

Schwanker

Waaaahhhhh, waaaahhhhhhh, I'm just as good as you are. Comair pilot mentality.

 

[Schwanker]

Waaaahhhhh, waaaahhhhhhh, I'm just as good as you are. Comair pilot mentality.

No, I guess we're not. You're likely the dude who has to stuff a pair of tube socks in the front of your pants so you can talk a big game. Sounds like you have quite an inferiority complex. What a loser!

 

[PuffDriver]

Here lies a perfect example of the "children" i spoke of in my previous post. Grow up moron, you're like a 13 year old girl trying to keep a worthless argument going.

The majority of individuals realize this is out of our hands and are going to make the best of it. I for one look forward to working together and moving past these ridiculous rants.

cheers :beer:

Who's trying to keep an argument going? I merely corrected some incorrect information.

Who said that I would have any control over the process? I have been over it for a while. I am on record as supporting a fair list. To think that either merger committee is not going to use every available tactic in order to get the best deal possible for their pilots is incorrect.

Get over yourself. These little conversations are what keep FI going. Perhaps we should just not have all of them. As usual, it is the NWA pilots making a mountain out of a molehill. Not surprising since you have to have 35 guys in the same room together to ensure that everybody is not screwing over the other 34.

 

[PuffDriver]

No, I guess we're not. You're likely the dude who has to stuff a pair of tube socks in the front of your pants so you can talk a big game. Sounds like you have quite an inferiority complex. What a loser!

It's a potato, and what's wrong with that?


Your quote:

Hopefully someday us sucky NWA guys can be as cool as you!


Who's got the inferiority complex? Did you fly for Comair?

 

[Superpilot92]

Who's trying to keep an argument going? I merely corrected some incorrect information.

Who said that I would have any control over the process? I have been over it for a while. I am on record as supporting a fair list. To think that either merger committee is not going to use every available tactic in order to get the best deal possible for their pilots is incorrect.

Get over yourself. These little conversations are what keep FI going. Perhaps we should just not have all of them. As usual, it is the NWA pilots making a mountain out of a molehill. Not surprising since you have to have 35 guys in the same room together to ensure that everybody is not screwing over the other 34.

Looks like i found Puffy, just as i imagined

http://meltyourfaceoff.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Seriously. Who cares?
We are going to be best friends like it or not. The deal is done, we had our day in the sun. Now we get to live with the agreement that we ALL overwhelmingly voted in favor for.
As Richard Anderson stated, "The pilots are dealt with."

 

[Superpilot92]

Seriously. Who cares?
We are going to be best friends like it or not. The deal is done, we had our day in the sun. Now we get to live with the agreement that we ALL overwhelmingly voted in favor for.
As Richard Anderson stated, "The pilots are dealt with."

agreed!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,
What was the alternative? You say the government didn't have a stake, but they did, a huge one! They had FDIC insurance and to see WAMU just go bankrupt and become worthless would have actually resulted in a bigger bill to the govenrment. If you take the governments insurance, you take the regulation and oversight. The FDIC prevents a massive run on banks, which would have probably happened this week, one of the factors that caused the great depression.
True capitalism would have seen many financial institutions fail to exist this week, but can the rest of America withstand the 10 year funk that would result from that, probably downright depression with deflation.
Luv

Luv,

We have not absorbed, or abolished a bubble, we have moved it to the nation's general debt. The bubble still exists and the cancer is now being absorbed into the rest of the body. Our nation is not an episode of "House," where an autocratic Doctor has all the answers.

This decision was initially made by Bernanke, acting alone. After the Federal Reserve spent itself into insolvency, the Treasury got involved. The story last week was not that AIG tanked, but that the Fed itself became insolvent.

Bernanke (a student of history) himself says the Federal Reserve lacks the legal authority to do what he has done. He acted alone in bailing out AIG, spending $85 Billion of OUR money.

Our politicians are unwilling to undertake the kind of Carter era austerity program necessary to even service the increased debt. The rest of the World knows this and knows the only way out is to inflate our currency until the debt is payable in worthless dollars. (a big war would do quite nicely to perform just such an economic destruction and yesturday we started shooting at an ally. Ahmadinejad would be smart to put away his Borat impersonations until after the election)

To put this debt in perspective, our deficit will run around 10% of our entire nation's Gross Domestic Product next year. It is clearly unsustainable. The results are predictable:

1. stratospheric debt levels
2. uncontrollable Dollar inflation
3. Worldwide run on the dollar
4. the loss of Dollar as the worldwide reserve currency

When the Dollar loses its status, we are at that instant a deeply insolvent third world debtor nation. Maybe you and I can sneak into Mexico and start a landscaping service.

I hope we don't get there, but that is the risk we face with this plan.

Now, is it necessary? JP Morgan paid 1.9Bn for WaMu's assets worth 307Bn. The incredible deal JP Morgan got was based on the -39Bn in bad mortgage assets. BUT, and a big BUT, is if this bail out goes forward, that -39Bn can be monetized at the Fed Window (or whatever mechanism they use) and passed along to the taxpayers. One heck of a deal, paying 1.9Bn for 307Bn of assets, wouldn't you say?

What about the 7.0Bn TPG Capital just put in to bail out WaMu? They did this in good faith, but now that money has vanished as the government stepped in and gave the asset to another party. Is that fair?

And that is where the problem lies. Who can you trust? How can you invest, if the government can step in and change the rules of the market, simply taking and handing out assets?

Bernanke did all that he had power to do, he opened the Fed Window. Beyond that he, and Paulson, are acting way beyond their authority and we do not even know if this action is needed. We are told the entire value of sub-prime, adjusting and defaulting mortgages is 500Bn, so why do we need 700Bn to fix that? Those assets have some value too. It doesn't make sense and the people we have elected to represent us have not even been given the opportunity to see this deal before they are asked to vote for it.

The banks have the money, the Fed gave them the money, they have my deposits at 3% and are lending them out short term at 35%. The disparity is the direct result of a lack of trust. What the government is pulling increases uncertainty. Ultimately protecting the American people is about stability. That stability might be the result of letting some deadbeats get the arse's kicked out on the street, along with many of those who originated those loans.

Instead, hedge funds are all over trying to hire the hot-shot investment bankers who figured out how to leverage mortgage derivatives 30 to 1.

We have to let the system work by following the rues of the game. It is the only safe way to restore confidence. We could do this by putting money directly into the banks, it is legal and the mechanism is understood by all involved.

This rush to do something off the books and outside our Constitution is typical of Bush's administration. Instead of Colin Powell, it is Paulson claiming there is yellow cake uranium under Main Street.

A public debt is a public curse - James Madison

A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.... - Thomas Jefferson

If we can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people, while under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. - Thomas Jefferson

Sorry about the serious thread creep.

 

[Fly4hire]

There will be hats and jackets. NWA will wear both. Yes, there have been instances of hat police out there. The crybaby NWA pilots can start getting over it any day now, for you are starting to sound like Comair pilots

The vast majority of pilots I know will do what the FOM says, just like always. There are uniform whiners on both sides. Your comparison of the NWA pilots to CMR is indicative of why the SLI process has not gotten anywhere. Your are just another airline, as are we. You were hired where you were because they called you first. You more than likely would have gone to NWA had it come along first. Get over the DAL dick measuring contest. This is the combination of two world class airlines of different cultures and demographics that will be stronger than either would have been alone. The sooner you embrace this is going to be the combination of cultures and operations as opposed to the submission of one by another the sooner we'll start making money and kicking butt.

 

[FDJ2]

You guys are telegraphing your strategy too easily.

You don't really think anyone involved in the arbitration strategy is on FI telegraphing anything do you?

The fact is that DAL is acquiring NWA, that's just a fact, but does it really matter?

When it comes to SLI, this is where the rubber hits the road, everything else is a side show:

1. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

 

[~~~^~~~]

... you're like a 13 year old girl trying to keep a worthless argument going.

Yeah... but ....