DAL Wants...

[surplus1]

I am not familiar with this works especially while in bankruptcy, and I hate to use Comair as an example because they are falling under hard times as well, but they also took concessions for growth, which did not happen, which kinda sounds like this proposal, or at least how you just worded it , what is to stop management from securing the payrates and then furloughing anyway. Comair, sorry guys and gals, took it in the rear and basically got nothing to show for it! We do not want your 100 seat aircraft by any means, but sounds an awful lot like concessions for growth to me.

If you actually believe that Comiar's previous concessions were "for growth" then it is true, as you said, that you're not familiar with how this works. Those concessions were and effort to "hold on" and survive, not for growth.

The DL pilots will have to do whatever they need to do in the effort to survive. If you really thingk CMR pilots took "concessions" last time around, you're about to get a very rude awakening to what "concession" really means when you see what we have to do next.

Better get ready to grin and bear it for there is no way that CMR can avoid the effects of Delta's failure to properly manage their airline.

Keep in mind that our position at CMR is like just like being a passenger in "steerage" on the Titanic. The first class passengers on the DL list will get the lifeboats. We'll be lucky if we get a left-over life jacket. Plan on doing a lot of "swimming" in the cesspool before you get rescued, IF that ever happens.

Being the subsidiary of a bankrupt company isn't as good as a pair of 2's in a high stakes poker game. Reality sucks, but it is still reality.

Plan on a 20% pay cut, the loss of 50 airplanes and the gutting of the rest of the CBA. If what's left survives, figure you lucked out.

The company we work for has been destroyed by the company that "owns" us, and we are expected to be thankful and smile. There is nothing we can do to change it.

Sorry to forecast bad news, but the truth is this is going to get far worse before it gets any better.

 

[Ty Webb]

Imagine poor little o me at Midwest making $149 an hour and I will be making more than a senior Delta captain? Me? Who would have thunk it.

Don't worry, Chuckie, you won't have to make that comparison much longer. Funny how these things work out.

 

[bafanguy]

ALPA needs to make a stand, if they have B@lls.

By the way, if these payrates stick, the whole industry will see it and suffer via trickledown effect.

Sure, ALPA can dig in their heels and "...make a stand if they have b@lls." But, this is bankruptcy ( it's been in a lot of newspapers ) and most, if not all, the influence ALPA historically had over their own destiny is now largely ceremonial.

They can "...take a stand...", only to have the judge perform a quick, painful orchiectomy. This is now about damage control and taking care of as many of THEIR OWN as possible and returning to fight the battle another day.. As GL said, DL recently had the bar as high as it's ever been. Maybe now it's YOUR turn to do that. Let us know how it's going for you.

Bashing Delta pilots for being bashed in BK just doesn't seem to be a very logical point of view.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

Don't worry, Chuckie, you won't have to make that comparison much longer. Funny how these things work out.

Are you now a finacial wizard or are you just blowing some more smoke out of your a$$? Another lame attempt to flame by Ty. Now go back to watching your cartoons.

 

[RP170]

I would say to a small extent, I would say those aircraft would be better deployed on routes that support that size equipment. The several departures a day thing is good for customer service isn't it? But hey what do I know. Maybe it would be better to put one flight a day on a 777 from CHA-ATL as opposed to 5 ATR's or RJ's. But seriously I am more concerned about the Payrate's at which everyone keeps lowering themselves to. 88.00 for twelve year captain, not good, considering that a 12 year captain here on the 700 makes 86.00. I think we all might be flying for free soon at this rate.

Well said. It's amazing that the regional pilots were always "lowering the bar" or guilty of "SJS." These proposed 100 seat pay rates at the majors prove this is no longer the case. Those rates sure make the 190 rates at Republic look pretty dang good now don't they? Sure the aircraft do belong at mainline but let's fly them for mainline pay rates not rates that are lower than regional rates. It's amazing how people will sell themselves out to save their jobs with the attitude that "hey it's not a big deal, we can work on raising those pay rates later." I've got news for you, those will be industry standard rates for a long time to come if pay rates like that are approved. That's why the industry has already reached the levels it has. Management has got you by the nads on this one. The race to the bottom will now reach unpresidented levels: the bottom. Absolutely amazing. Just when you thought you've seen it all and it can't get any worse.

 

[jehtplane]

If you actually believe that Comiar's previous concessions were "for growth" then it is true, as you said, that you're not familiar with how this works. Those concessions were and effort to "hold on" and survive, not for growth.

The DL pilots will have to do whatever they need to do in the effort to survive. If you really thingk CMR pilots took "concessions" last time around, you're about to get a very rude awakening to what "concession" really means when you see what we have to do next.

Better get ready to grin and bear it for there is no way that CMR can avoid the effects of Delta's failure to properly manage their airline.

Keep in mind that our position at CMR is like just like being a passenger in "steerage" on the Titanic. The first class passengers on the DL list will get the lifeboats. We'll be lucky if we get a left-over life jacket. Plan on doing a lot of "swimming" in the cesspool before you get rescued, IF that ever happens.

Being the subsidiary of a bankrupt company isn't as good as a pair of 2's in a high stakes poker game. Reality sucks, but it is still reality.

Plan on a 20% pay cut, the loss of 50 airplanes and the gutting of the rest of the CBA. If what's left survives, figure you lucked out.

The company we work for has been destroyed by the company that "owns" us, and we are expected to be thankful and smile. There is nothing we can do to change it.

Sorry to forecast bad news, but the truth is this is going to get far worse before it gets any better.

Dude come on man, those concessions were for growth, management showed you the E-170 and you bought off on it. They had done the same thing to both of us just a year earlier. I really do wish you guys the best and I am sorry for you and yours. Hopefully things will not be as bad as everyone is suggesting. It sure is amazing how things have turned, how everyone is trying to undercut the other guy, and now the majors are being forced to knock their payscales right down to that of a regional, and I hate to say it but do not be surprised if management comes to the DCI carriers for another RFP for those same airplanes, how sad this whole thing has become , I truly wish everyone the best!

 

[General Lee]

Well said. It's amazing that the regional pilots were always "lowering the bar" or guilty of "SJS." These proposed 100 seat pay rates at the majors prove this is no longer the case. Those rates sure make the 190 rates at Republic look pretty dang good now don't they? Sure the aircraft do belong at mainline but let's fly them for mainline pay rates not rates that are lower than regional rates. It's amazing how people will sell themselves out to save their jobs with the attitude that "hey it's not a big deal, we can work on raising those pay rates later." I've got news for you, those will be industry standard rates for a long time to come if pay rates like that are approved. That's why the industry has already reached the levels it has. Management has got you by the nads on this one. The race to the bottom will now reach unpresidented levels: the bottom. Absolutely amazing. Just when you thought you've seen it all and it can't get any worse.

It's different when a juges makes you do it. You guys bought off on it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[RP170]

It's different when a juges makes you do it. You guys bought off on it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The judge will make you fly new 100 seaters? Don't you have to vote on the newly proposed pay rates for those aircraft before a judge can force you to fly them for those rates? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that was how it worked? Looks like we bought off on it at some pretty good rates now huh? Do those mainline 100 seat rates sound good to you General? Why don't you share your view on what you think about it.

 

[FDJ2]

The judge will make you fly new 100 seaters? Don't you have to vote on the newly proposed pay rates for those aircraft before a judge can force you to fly them for those rates?

I'm not sure what your point is, but the judge imposes a contract when one is not ratified by the union. Those rates and that PWA is DAL's opener/wish list, they have not been approved by the DAL MEC or pilots.

Were your rates imposed on you by a judge, were they negotiated in bankruptcy or through the Railway Labor Act? There's a big difference, you can grasp that, can't you?

 

[RP170]

I'm not sure what your point is, but the judge imposes a contract when one is not ratified by the union. Those rates and that PWA is DAL's opener/wish list, they have not been approved by the DAL MEC or pilots.

Were your rates imposed on you by a judge, were they negotiated in bankruptcy or through the Railway Labor Act? There's a big difference, you can grasp that, can't you?

I understand that but no rates have been imposed by anyone yet. It just seems everyone is happy with those proposed rates and is just going to roll with it. Can't the union bargain whatsoever and propose something higher? I guess seeing those pay rates just bothers me more than it bothers your own pilots considering there are proposed 190 regional rates that are higher than those. Everyone has been preaching how the 190's should be flown at mainline for mainline wages and attacked regionals that have proposed or suggested flying these aircraft. Maybe I'm confused here but that's how I view it.