DAL Wants...

[JoeMerchant]

I consider it a commuter compared to the E170. If you've ever ridden in one there's no comparing the two.

It's that kind of thinking (or lack of thinking) that has contributed to this mess within ALPA. Whatever happened to "AIRLINER" or "AIRPLANE". Tell me wms, what was a DC3, or a Covair 580, or a Martin 404, or a DC7? Were they "commuters"? You would make a great ALPA President. It pays well, and comes with a nice car and driver. You can have meetings all day trying to move the line between "commuter" and "mainline". Quit kissing mainline butt!

Joe

 

[wms]

Just so I am understanding you, A CRJ with 250 seats is OK, because it is a "commuter" , but an EMB with 70 seats is not. OK

You're misunderstanding me. There is no comparison between the CRJ and the E170. Take one step into an E170 and it is a ML airplane. ML seats, aisles, overheads, jetways, etc. ML in every sense. The CR7 is no different than the CR2 other than the seats. And the CR9 is just more of the same.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You're misunderstanding me. There is no comparison between the CRJ and the E170. Take one step into an E170 and it is a ML airplane. ML seats, aisles, overheads, jetways, etc. ML in every sense. The CR7 is no different than the CR2 other than the seats. And the CR9 is just more of the same.

WMS, what was a DC3? Duane is that you? Malone is that you?

Joe

 

[RP170]

Green
The numbers are just intented to start a discussion. Yes, they are low and maybe even too low. But look at it as an average benchmark. More people would make more for a longer period in their career. Also, the pay difference between FO and CAP would be reduced. How good is it to work as an FO for three years at a major just to get furlought and to start allover again at the bottom. Unfortunately, the concept of starting at an airline and to work until you make the big pay-check is just about dead. The numbers are nothing but averages for a broader group of Pilots and intented to smoothen the peaks and valleys of the current pay scales. I tried to look at it from the perspective of earning capacity in a ten year time period, rather than the illusive golden pot at the end of a 20 year career.
By the way, thanks for your reply!

How good is it to work at a regional as an FO for 3 years and get furloughed to start all over again at another regional? Speaking from experience it is terrible. You think it sucks getting furloughed at a major airline? Try getting furlouged at a regional where you are struggling to put food on the table to start with. We are all in the same boat here. Some of us can't make it off of the bottom due to the hand we've been dealt. I'm not asking for sympathy just stating that it happens at all levels not just to guys at the majors.

 

[wms]

It's that kind of thinking (or lack of thinking) that has contributed to this mess within ALPA. Whatever happened to "AIRLINER" or "AIRPLANE". Tell me wms, what was a DC3, or a Covair 580, or a Martin 404, or a DC7? Were they "commuters"? You would make a great ALPA President. It pays well, and comes with a nice car and driver. You can have meetings all day trying to move the line between "commuter" and "mainline". Quit kissing mainline butt!

Joe

They were a different era. The fact is there should be no line between ml and commuters, but there is. I want the line to stay at a point where there is opportunity to move up, rather than increasing the number of planes here to secure a long future at a regional.

Nowadays what seems to draw the line seems to be operational. There is an operational difference between the way we operate vs ML. Compare C and D concourse to the rest of ATL. If you're parking one airplane at one gate, using jet ways only, dragging your bag down the aisle and putting it in the overhead, it's ML. If you're dodging baggage tugs and fuel trucks as you run across the ramp, it's a commuter.

 

[49W]

What's the alternative? If DALPA says no to the 100 seat rates, what will happen then? Maybe Chitaqua or someone else will bid for it and get it. If you are senior enough at Delta, you don't have to worry about flying at those rates. If you are junior enough to worry, then you are faced with either flying a 100 seater RJ for around 80K a year if the rates are approved, or if they are not approved, then you face certain furlough and starting over somewhere else for much less. I don't want to see it happen, but if it does, I can't say that I blame the Delta pilots.

 

[General Lee]

I think we will try to negotiate (try) a slightly better pay rate for those 100 seaters, and hopefully we will try to get those 79 seaters on mainline. Hopefully Dalpa sees this as a threat to mainline and it's future. The older guys might not care much, but as of 15 months ago they were fairly junior too (not on the large equipment before 2500 senior guys left). Let's see if they remember being junior and threatened? Maybe they won't care... I hope they do.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IB6 UB9]

I think we will try to negotiate (try) a slightly better pay rate for those 100 seaters, and hopefully we will try to get those 79 seaters on mainline. Hopefully Dalpa sees this as a threat to mainline and it's future. The older guys might not care much, but as of 15 months ago they were fairly junior too (not on the large equipment before 2500 senior guys left). Let's see if they remember being junior and threatened? Maybe they won't care... I hope they do.


Bye Bye--General Lee

They won't, and neither will you when you get there.

 

[E120ASA]

Well said.

 

[superrav]

what do the guys that are losing there jobs think????

 

[General Lee]

They won't, and neither will you when you get there.

Then you really don't know me. You have had over 5000 posts to figure it out. I care about our furloughs (I know many), and I enjoy the whole industry. I like to rib you guys at B6 and I give krap to the Comair guys for snubbing our furloughs, but that is about it. Have a great one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

After all, post continually proclaim the jetblue rate to be horrible, just horrible, and that a union would have done better.
Well, now is the time to show it!

Dizel8, I know you're having fun with this, but do you really think that a pilot group negotiating under CH11 vs. the RLA is in a position to raise the bar or have much leverage in negotiating pay rates?

 

[AnimalTale]

Sure, ALPA can dig in their heels and "...make a stand if they have b@lls." But, this is bankruptcy ( it's been in a lot of newspapers ) and most, if not all, the influence ALPA historically had over their own destiny is now largely ceremonial.

They can "...take a stand...", only to have the judge perform a quick, painful orchiectomy. This is now about damage control and taking care of as many of THEIR OWN as possible and returning to fight the battle another day.. As GL said, DL recently had the bar as high as it's ever been. Maybe now it's YOUR turn to do that. Let us know how it's going for you.

Bashing Delta pilots for being bashed in BK just doesn't seem to be a very logical point of view.

Cool your jets! I wasnt cutting on Delta Pilots. I just think its sad how the industry is falling apart and all ALPA is trying to do is recruit new nieve members to generate enough dues to pay that WORTHLESS guy his 400k salary.

What is ALPA for?

-Job SECURITY? NOPE
-PENSIONS? NOPE
-High PAY? NOPE
-SAFETY? OK

BAFANGUY,

My Impression, You are probably a SENIOR CAPTAIN at Delta, all u care about is perserving your pension. Is that true?

Cya

IM NOT AGAINST YOU. WE ARE ALL GOING TO FEEL THE PAIN SOON, if we dont do anything about it.

 

[Otto]

I just think its sad how the industry is falling apart and all ALPA is trying to do is recruit new nieve members to generate enough dues to pay that WORTHLESS guy his 400k salary.

EXACTLY. There's not a hint of urgency or crisis coming from ALPA during all of this. It seems as if it's business as usual at the top. Can we talk about how to kick WORTHLESS out and replace him with sombody with SOME VISION?!

 

[General Lee]

Cool your jets! I wasnt cutting on Delta Pilots. I just think its sad how the industry is falling apart and all ALPA is trying to do is recruit new nieve members to generate enough dues to pay that WORTHLESS guy his 400k salary.

What is ALPA for?

-Job SECURITY? NOPE
-PENSIONS? NOPE
-High PAY? NOPE
-SAFETY? OK

BAFANGUY,

My Impression, You are probably a SENIOR CAPTAIN at Delta, all u care about is perserving your pension. Is that true?

Cya

IM NOT AGAINST YOU. WE ARE ALL GOING TO FEEL THE PAIN SOON, if we dont do anything about it.

Bafanguy retired early at Delta, as an MD90 Captain. He took half of his pension in a lump sum, and the rest is in jeopardy. He knows as well as the rest of us that the rest of the pensions may be dumped soon. At least he got half. I fly with plenty of 49 year olds that didn't qualify for the lump sum (needed to be 50), and now most likely will lose their pensions too. They sure don't talk much enroute.

Bye Bye--General Lee