Comair exit poll

[jetflyer]

Let me say this slowly so you can understand it. You seem to not understand the game that Delta plays.

It's called the "whipsawing of union groups against each other"

I can pull you aside and explain it to you one on one if you want me to.

Do you think Delta gives a flying hoot about CASM, and yes I know what it is thank you. I think they've proven they want control of LABOR. You seem to not understand. Sorry.

Before you come back with the same tired argument over and over, answer this question before you bore me:

If Comair would have taken the paycuts the first time, would they have received some of the 50 seaters??

If your answer is YES, then ASA was NOT SUPPOSED TO RECEIVE THOSE PLANES.

If your answer is NO, THEN YOU ARE TRULY AS MORONIC AS I THOUGHT YOU WERE.

You are completely wrong that ASA WAS SUPPOSED TO RECEIVE THOSE PLANES.

Jet

 

[atrdriver]

Well, lets see. ASA told management no when asked for a contract extension, just as CMR said no to concessions. ASA had a higher CASM, so while DAL would have made more money by placing them at CMR, they still placed them at ASA. So yes, I think that they knew that ASA was going to get them before the RFP was issued. Moronic, maybe, but you didn't get them with an already lower CASM, I don't think that lowering it another cent or so would have mattered.

 

[jetflyer]

atrdriver,

OK, you proved it you ARE a MORON.



I’m tired, you’re boring me, and I need to go to bed. We’ll continue this discussion at another time.



Goodnight friend,



Jet

 

[atrdriver]

atrdriver,

OK, you proved it you ARE a MORON.


Jet

Kind of the pot calling the kettle black, huh?

 

[MetroSheriff]

You ought to make a bag sticker out of that. It sums up who you are and what you bring to the fight.

I'd have more respect for you if you just voted yes and closed your pie hole.

Coward.

 

[MetroSheriff]

What happened to the purpose of this thread?

I still have confidence in the CMR folks to vote no. I am willing to give them that respect since I feel they've earned it. It truly amazes me how easily airline management "teams" can divide and conquer.

I too, still hold out hope that the no votes will toss this POS back in Fred's lap. Unfortunately I have given into the temptation to comment on some of the Comair pilots, but only because they have come on here trying to justify their lack of fortitude.

I have a hard time with someone who gets on and publicly states that he took "Low Road" and then wants to spend the next week telling you why it was such a good idea.

 

[jarhead]

To borrow a quote from another Comair Pilot:
“My arms are getting pretty tired of holding up the Bar so everyone else can walk under it.”

How long must we hold up this Bar? How many times can we afford to watch growth aircraft sent to non-ALPA, or non-Union carriers? If anything, I’m a Unionist interested in protecting Union jobs. And General, before you take a shot at me, Comair is not doing any flying that you didn’t vote to send our way.

I was a hard core NO vote for a long time, however there's a time to vote no and a time to mend fenses and work with management. A risk? yes. Allows "Face Saving"? Maybe. When I was able to eliminate emotion from the equation, I could more clearly see the path before me. Ask a United or a US Air Pilot Whats the maximum he would vote to give back and save his job.

Whether you agree or not, I believe this LOA protects Union jobs on our current senority list for at least 5 years if aircraft are deliverd as promised. 5 years is a long time in this industry.

I'm a 16 year Capt in the CRJ. My quality of life is as good as it will ever get. 10 more 50 seat and 25 70 seat aircraft will not improve it. So you can see my motivation is not for self interest.

I see as two choices with different Odds. One choice is a 50/50 you loose. the other is at least a 80/20 you win.

I think I'll take the 80/20 choice.

p.s. A furloughed Delta pilot was just hired. I understand he kept his Delta number. Another Union Job protected.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surplus 1 is Judas, not John the Baptist

Surplus:

Interesting that you now support left over barganing and turn to religious metaphors when objective demonstrable facts that support your position are lacking. I even thought your metaphor was lousy. A better comparison is Judas, who sold out the cause for silver.

Turning Judas on your ASA friends ( who did say NO ) will cost you their unity. Turning Judas on the ASA pilots means that we no longer have the support to jack our end of the house.

We can whip saw management, or management can whip saw us. We now know who was whipped.

This is predatory bargaining - engaged in by Comair's MEC and being supported by Comair's pilots. You are no better than the Roman Guard, the Delta MEC, or ALPA National because you now endorse their policies.

ASA does not currently have someone to step up to the plate in the way that Dan Ford has, and watching you turn colors leaves my faith in the idea that ALPA can be fixed badly shaken.

While there is no link between this action by the Comair pilots and the RJDC, the fact that the Comair pilots have engaged in this act undermines the moral legitimacy of the effort begun by the Comair pilots. Those of us who have stood beside ( and financially supported ) Comair pilots in their fight for equal and fair representation within ALPA are sickened.

If John the Baptist had stopped to buy a new Chariot with Jesus Robes - it would have given Christianity a lousy reputation.

~~~^~~~

Comair - Your Delta Concession Connection

 

[MetroSheriff]

To borrow a quote from another Comair Pilot:
“My arms are getting pretty tired of holding up the Bar so everyone else can walk under it.”

Oh please. Save me the peity-infused rhetoric. If Comair pilots have tired arms, it is from patting themselves on the back.

If anything, I’m a Unionist interested in protecting Union jobs. And General, before you take a shot at me, Comair is not doing any flying that you didn’t vote to send our way.

No, you are not a unionist, you are Comair pilot looking out for yourself. That's fine, but don't try to cloak it with the banner of union brotherhood and trade unionism.

It's embarrassing.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Well said Fins.

I couldn't even touch the J the B metaphor. It was almost laughable.

 

[~~~^~~~]

To borrow a quote from another Comair Pilot:
“My arms are getting pretty tired of holding up the Bar so everyone else can walk under it.”

How long must we hold up this Bar? How many times can we afford to watch growth aircraft sent to non-ALPA, or non-Union carriers? If anything, I’m a Unionist interested in protecting Union jobs.

Then be Proud
It was ASA's turn to hold the Bar Next​

All you guys have done is to legitimize the position taken by ASA's management that the world has changed and ASA pilots can not expect gains in our next contract.

The airplanes will go wherever they are intended to go anyway. There are more jets up the pipeline that will be 50 seat & mainline replacements. Your small order for concessions will not equal ASA's order as our negotiating effort collapses due to lack of support. You will be lapped on the race to the bottom.

 

[patriotflier]

Jetflyer,

IT IS YOU THAT HAS HIS HEAD UP HIS A$$!!!

If you think that giving concessions is the determining factor of who gets airplanes you are sorely mistaken!!!! ASA got the airplanes because we have approx 50 less aircraft than you do and further more how many T-props do you operate? NONE....Ours are retiring and the 25 Aircraft we are getting are replacing most of the ATR's they are retiring......So who is the MORON now.

See that is the problem with most of you guys! Get your head out from the sand and use facts! I worked for DLfor many years in mgmt roles and have contacts who tell me what your spewing out of your hole is WRONG!

It is the COMAIR guys who are screwing the rest of the industry on this one and certainly not your fellow pilots at ASA. We were behind you 110% until YOUR MEC decided to go behind everyone back and negotiate a deal with MGMT!

One more thing jet! Have you ever held a real world job out side of flying or did you go through one of those programs that daddy paid for?

Your ignorance is amazing!!!!!

 

[chperplt]

You ASA boys need to simma down. You're going to blow out an artery.

Just relax and wait for the official tally before having a coronary and telling us we're a bunch of sh!tbags.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Where's the Bar you guys are talking about?

To borrow a quote from another Comair Pilot:
“My arms are getting pretty tired of holding up the Bar so everyone else can walk under it.”

How long must we hold up this Bar?

Where is the Bar? After watching it do up and down, with everybody fighting over it, I'm thirsty.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

Has there ever been ANYONE on here backpedaling as fast as Surplus1 the past few days?

You just gotta love the pie in the face.

--a formerly concerned regional pilot

 

[skyslug]

It is the COMAIR guys who are screwing the rest of the industry on this one and certainly not your fellow pilots at ASA. We were behind you 110% until YOUR MEC decided to go behind everyone back and negotiate a deal with MGMT!

One more thing jet! Have you ever held a real world job out side of flying or did you go through one of those programs that daddy paid for?

Your ignorance is amazing!!!!!

???????????????/

Pretty harsh words there Patriotflier. First off your Wal-Mart reference a few posts back was interesting. Briefly, Wal-Mart employees CAN'T take concessions when they're already the worst paid and have the worst benefits in the known universe (ALPA article in this month's ALPA magazine). Wal-Mart grew because it compensates it's employees so horribly (sort of like Mesa making money off it's employees backs).

Costco on the other hand compensates their employees much better and as such each employee produces more sales then their Wal-Mart counterpart (there was an article in Newsweek about 6 months ago that supports this). Costco treats their employees well, compenstes them, offers benefits that Wal-Mart can't touch. Costco employees also on average are employeed longer (thus higher paid?) than W-M's. Costco continues to make tons of money!!! Sort of the LUV philosophy for warehouse chains!

There's a lesson in there somewhere!

However.....as for the "going behind everyones back and negotiating a deal with management"...how dare we negotiate! How in the world did we go behind your backs???????? And to have the audacity (hope I spelled this baby right!) to actually negotiate with management???? Wow...who'd a thunk!

Keep in mind there is more to this picture than meets the eyes (there always is whether you vote NO or YES). We are NOT screwing you over, we're voting on doing what's in Comair's best interest. As I look at the LOA it states the agreement is between Comair ALPA (no other airline or bargaining agent mentioned) and our management.

Your negotiating effort won't collapse. In fact I suspect it will become more heated and focused!!! Although judging by some of the posts on this board, it may not seem like it right now, we DO support ASA and their efforts!!!! We want you guys to hit a home run and get a great (industry leading, bar raising or whatever cliche you want to use) contract!!!!! I have no doubt you will. We'll do whatever we can to support you AND do what's best for Comair.

 

[PCL_128]

Surplus 1 is Judas, not John the Baptist

Fins, you're starting to scare me. I've never agreed with you so much before.

Seriously though surplus, don't you think you're Biblical analogy is a little bit over the top? John the Baptist? Give me a break. The ego that has developed within the Comair pilot group is unbelievable. How many of you that pat yourself on the back for the 89 days were even there in '01? It cracks me up to see these junior Comair guys bragging about "holding up the bar" when they were still flight instructing back in '01. Stop patting yourself on the back and trying to justify this disgrace.

ASA and Pinnacle are currently in contract negotiations trying to make gains for the profession. This all but destroys our efforts. How can our MECs go to the NMB and ask to be released when the CMR pilots just admitted that they are overpayed? All of this damage to the professions just so you can buy Fred some new airplanes? You guys are just pathetic.

 

[chperplt]

The ego that has developed within the Comair pilot group is unbelievable.

10 or 20 people out of the 1800 we have speak up and the entire group has an ego problem?

Give me a break buddy...

 

[JI Gone OH]

You ought to make a bag sticker out of that. It sums up who you are and what you bring to the fight.

I'd have more respect for you if you just voted yes and closed your pie hole.

Coward.

After the pay freeze, I might just have to make that sticker; thanx for the idea. As far as respect, your respect for me doesn't improve the long term viability for my company and doesn't pay my bills. Your respect is like an S.T.D., I can live without it.

My bet is that you want me to "close my pie hole" because you don't agree with my position on this. My response to you mirrors what will be on that shiny new sticker: Selfish, yes, but tough sh*t.

And me, a coward, I don't think so Tim. Nice Day....

 

[jetflyer]

It's amazing to me how the ASA pilots don't support our decisions.

It seems like you guys are being selfish. You could care less that Comair WILL NOT get these airplanes. The whipsaw game WOULD END immediately if we received the airplanes after saying "NO". They will keep their whipsaw going till Chapter 7 if they must.

We with HIGHER PILOT COSTS said "NO" last time.
Bla, bla, bla you did too. <---If you say this again I'm going to throw up!

Since Comair pilots and ASA pilots both said "NO", they gave them to ASA. They wanted some of them to go to a WO. THEY LOST LESS FACE by giving them to you after YOU said "NO", than they would have by giving them to us.

You guys amaze me thinking that if Comair would have ACCEPTED THE RFP and taken a MAJOR HIT in their pay, that Comair would not have received EVEN ONE OF THE RFP airplanes.

That shows your lack of intelligence.

They WOULD have given us every plane they promised us the first time, to save their integrity for bargaining in the future AND so they could take a MAJOR hit in our UNION fought PAY.

I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG ON THIS ISSUE. NOW STOP BEING MORONS AND ARGUING WITH ME ON THIS.

You guys spat off about "YOU'LL GET THE PLANES ANWAYS" because you want us to say "NO".

Comair then WILL NOT GET PLANES and YOU WILL GET THEM. YOU being CHQ, SKW, and ASA.

That is one reason you want us to vote no. You are being selfish.

The second reason is that you want your "COMAIR-1%" Contract to be HIGHER. Again you are being selfish.



ONCE AGAIN, and THIS SHOULDN'T BE ARGUED, WE WILL NOT receive these airplanes.

DELTA, not Freddie MAC, would lose all its respect for bargaining negotiations in the future. THIS would encourage others to fight them in the future, because you'll still be rewarded.

You guys don't see that we are faced with an aging fleet. This LOA protects US from going below 199 planes. It says that when the AGING AIRCRAFT LEAVE they have to replace them to keep the number at 199! This is very valuable to our pilot group and airline.

By Comair saying "NO", Comair would eventually shrink, when our aging planes leave Comair. That is why many are voting yes.

If your company is not growing, it's shrinking. Many of us are worried next time they'll ask us for a pay freeze, so that 35 of our CURRENT airplanes DON'T LEAVE to go to ASA, CHQ, SKW. We're worried they may start dismantling us. This is our worry, NOT YOURS.

Should we vote "NO", so you can get our airplanes and our pay??

OR should ve vote "YES" so we can save OUR JOBS??

I think the answer for many Comair pilots is clear.

Please RESPECT our decision. Let's stop the bickering. ASA pilots are allowing the wedge to be driven between us on this one.

You used to support us. YOU should support us now more than ever during this hard decision for us.

Stop thinking of yourselves for one minute, and look at this whole situation from our perspectives.

That is all I ask,

Jet