Comair exit poll

[homerjdispatch]

Um no surplus, we see you as SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[surplus1]

Is there anything new about that? I see it as no change. That's how you've always seen us. Dam-ned if we do, dam-ned if we don't.

It is now time for us to see ourselves in the way that we choose. In other words, you are temporarily irrelevant if you're not a Comair pilot.

Now you know how WE feel, when YOU do as you please without regard to us. Wan't to raise your "bar". Go ahead, we're not stopping you and we never have. You've had your chances and you blew them all.

We wish you the best as always, but we're going to make this decision on our own. Thanks for all your "help".

 

[homerjdispatch]

Surplus,

Best of luck to you guys. But dont think your SH!T dont stink like everyone elses!!!!!!

 

[surplus1]

Surplus,

Best of luck to you guys. But dont think your SH!T dont stink like everyone elses!!!!!!

Thank you for the good wishes. A word of caution -- if everytime you come into the room you smell sh!t, the first place you need to look is your own shoes, not Comair's shoes.

 

[Bizjet]

This is dated 2-7-05. Who would want to interfere with the Comair pilots voting? FB, GG or Joe K? I thought it was against the law to hunt on a baited field!
____________________________________________________________________


Embraer "buy," target price raised - update

Monday, February 07, 2005 1:47:34 PM ET
Banc of America


NEW YORK, February 7 (newratings.com) - Analysts at Banc of America Securities reiterate their "buy" rating on Embraer (ERJ.NYS). The target price has been raised from $33 to $35.

In a research note published this morning, the analysts mention that the company is expected to receive an order for 25 E170s from Delta Air Lines’ regional airline, Comair. The order could pave the way for further such orders for Embraer, the analysts believe. The current valuation of Embraer’s stock is attractive, according to Banc of America Securities.


Embraer Empresa | detailed quote - chart - all headlines previous

 

[sweptback]

You guys act like anything CMR does will have some kind of effect on you.. Have you been able to get CMR wages during your years of negotiations? Have you been able to come close? I didn't think so.

So.. What we (CMR) do doesn't seem to have any effect, good or bad, on what happens with you or your contract. At least logic and current events would assume that.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that what happens at Comair (good or bad) would factor into what ASA's negotiators will ask for.

Since it sounds like this deal will be ratified, you better believe that ASA management will walk into negotiations the day we start talking compensation (which has not occured yet), and say that Comair's rates are unsustainable, and even their pilots know it. The fact that you took a pay cut will hurt our chances to increase ours.

Now, Comair has to watch out for Comair, and ASA has to watch out for ASA. We are separate airlines and have separate PWAs. But we are the two closest related airlines in the industry, and to say that anything you do will not affect ASA is fooling yourselves.

 

[wahoo250]

I hate to inform everyone, all the contracts at the regionals pay su*ks. QOL pretty good...pay deserving a lot higher across the board if you ask me. Like it was said before now is not a good time to negotiate contracts. However, when it is a good time there better be unity across the board for better pay rates.

 

[chperplt]

Now, Comair has to watch out for Comair, and ASA has to watch out for ASA. We are separate airlines and have separate PWAs. But we are the two closest related airlines in the industry, and to say that anything you do will not affect ASA is fooling yourselves.

I'm a firm believer that we can do more as a group than we can as an individual. I hope I'm wrong and you guys have the same resolve that the CMR guys did in the past. I wasn't here then and I don't see it here now.

For what it's worth, I'm a no vote.

 

[Mel Sharples]

we are not the reason the bar will be lowered. that is on the backs of every pilot group under us that choose not to join us. we are in this predicament because no other pilot group choose to keep the bar high. the top is a lonely place to be.

Waco

Umm... yeah. Like all those companies that had to negotiate post-9/11. It was just as easy after 9/11 as before. Yep.

You saying that is like the guy bopping the hottest girl in school saying, "Gee, Billy... you should find a girlfriend as hot as mine. It's easy, isn't it?"

I'm not starting crap because I have a lot of friends at CMR and I wish you guys the best of luck. But lets compare apples to apples, on behalf of those of us who negotiated in an "oranges only" era.

Is the new Mesaba contract great? No.

Does it suck? No.

How did I vote? No.

Do I have to live with it? Yes.

Everyone is in survival mode. Yes, we are all in this together but for CMR folks to criticize everyone else for not "holding the bar" is crap.

Sounds an awful lot like "let them eat cake" to me.

 

[DDpaysoff]

The difference between Comair pilots and the rest of you naysayers is simple. We see ourselves as John the Baptist. You want to confuse us with the Messiah.

We are not your "saviors" and we know it. We don't have the ability to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven, and we know that too.

If we drop the cross one more time we'll be out of the parade. So spare us the palm fronds of last week and get the message. We are not going to allow you to crucify us so that you can laugh while you fight each other for our garments.

We're going to do what we have to do now to preserve our own skins. The rest of you have already proven beyond any doubt that you won't hesitate to benefit from our downfall. You've done it before and you'll do it again at the first opportunity. Well, this time we're going to take care of ouselves as we see fit.

We don't all agree with each other and we never have. However, we're not going to shaft our junior people, like many of you have, so that you can continue to staff your left seats with J4J captains while you starve your own FO's and deny their seniority rights.

Our only real concern is the folks at ASA. We'll continue to support their efforts in the same way that they supported ours. But, we won't commit suicide to do it; just as they didn't commit suicide for us. We can't be of any benefit to them by giving our upgrades to CHQ or some other newcomer just so you can boast of your one-year upgrades.

Yes, it will cost us a lot of money to do this. The key word is "US". It won't cost you a dime and you know it. You aren't really worried about what happens to Comair, you're worried about what happens to YOU, and it shows.

So, spare us the hypocrisy and let us decide for ourselves what we want to do for ourselves, instead of railing us about what you think we should do for YOU.

Your expressed concern for our welfare is disingenuous and transparent. This one is OUR call, whichever way it goes. It's not easy and we'll be stuggling with each other for a long time no matter what we ultimately decide. We'll solve that internal problem just as we have before; we'll overcome it and emerge together. When we have, the rest of you will still be looking in our direction and arguing about whether to hate us or love us, just as you are today. Nothing new about that.

Check back on March 1 and you'll learn what we have decided.

That is the best post that I have seen here in a long time. I know you wanted to use like 4,000 more words, but knew with the attention span on this thread it would just dilute the message.

Very well said.

 

[cl65capt]

The boys on Virginia Ave must be pi$$ing themselves over this one. First they get the mighty Comair pilots to give back and as a bonus they split the unity between Comair and ASA. I'm sure Fred will get a nice bonus if this thing passes.

 

[737 Pylt]

How many of you are prepared to fall on your swords to give our junior pilots preferential hiring at your airline if they should be furloughed in the future? Can we depend on you to protect them or should we do it ourselves?

You mean how the CMR pilots offered preferential hiring to DAL furloughees after 9/11? I'd be willing to help out as much as was offered to us!
737

 

[N813CA]

737 Pylt

Good thing you won't be hiring in the next 10 years plus.

 

[Sinca3]

So what will the big EMB-170 pay? Probably just the fargin same as the CRJ's you have now. You will sell yourselves and ASA pilots out for NOTHING!

Well check out the LOA....it is the same.

 

[737 Pylt]

737 Pylt

Good thing you won't be hiring in the next 10 years plus.

From the looks of it, neither will you!
737

 

[surplus1]

You mean how the CMR pilots offered preferential hiring to DAL furloughees after 9/11? I'd be willing to help out as much as was offered to us!
737

Not really. The truth is, with respect to this, I never considered the DAL pilots at all.

The only thing you got from us was a dose of what you gave to us. You found it less that palatable; well, when we tasted your potion we did too. You have reaped exactly what you sowed and yes, YOU started the sowing not us.

In reality I don't know any of us who thought that any of you owed us anything. Apparently all of you thought that all of us owed you something. You were mistaken. Sorry for the misunderstanding on your part.

Friends if you want to be, no problem if you don't.

 

[surplus1]

Very well said.

Thank you, sir.

Semper Fi

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Thank you Comair for the mortal precedent. Dangle a shiny new jet in front of pilots = automatic givebacks. I suppose we ASA folks have nothing to aspire to, since you gave it all away. All that hold the line b.s. for nothing. This industry sucks.

 

[atrdriver]

av8tor4239,

I will be watching closely! I know you will surpass our contract by leaps and bounds! If you don't, I will rag you to death!!!

The problem with that statement is simple. Mid Atlantic is flying 70 seaters for $58/hour, Skywest agreed to fly anything up to 100 seats for 50 seat rates, and now CMR freezes their pay to buy Fred some airplanes. The ASA pilots could have already signed a contract if we wanted to agree to managements $hitty offers, but we don't. But with all this downward pressure, the chances of a mediator looking at what the ASA pilots are looking for and agreeing that it is reasonable decreases. And a mediator doesn't have to release us if he thinks that we are asking for unreasonable things. If you can't figure out why the ASA pilots are a little upset ofer this then maybe you need to step back and look at it from our point of view.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

The problem with that statement is simple. Mid Atlantic is flying 70 seaters for $58/hour, Skywest agreed to fly anything up to 100 seats for 50 seat rates, and now CMR freezes their pay to buy Fred some airplanes. The ASA pilots could have already signed a contract if we wanted to agree to managements $hitty offers, but we don't. But with all this downward pressure, the chances of a mediator looking at what the ASA pilots are looking for and agreeing that it is reasonable decreases. And a mediator doesn't have to release us if he thinks that we are asking for unreasonable things. If you can't figure out why the ASA pilots are a little upset o[v]er this then maybe you need to step back and look at it from our point of view.

And rightfully so.

Rationalization sucks.

 

[av8tor4239]

So, spare us the hypocrisy and let us decide for ourselves what we want to do for ourselves, instead of railing us about what you think we should do for YOU.

Your expressed concern for our welfare is disingenuous and transparent. This one is OUR call, whichever way it goes. It's not easy and we'll be stuggling with each other for a long time no matter what we ultimately decide. We'll solve that internal problem just as we have before; we'll overcome it and emerge together. When we have, the rest of you will still be looking in our direction and arguing about whether to us or love us, just as you are today. Nothing new about that.

There is truth here and there is hypocorocy...

The truth is that you will have to live with your decision.. They hypocrocy is that you preach how you are holyer than thou for "raising the bar", yet you still vote yes to concessions. This just proves the point that when you signed your contract, things were going fairly well in the aviation industry... Now that things are crappy, you take concessions.. How can you say to companies that have negotiated contracts post 9/11 should or even could reach the contract you negotiated PRE 9/11.
I can tell you right now that if this thing passes our expectations at ASA for an industry leading contract are out the window...

How can you say that an industry leading contract is a burdon?
Remember we (ASA) are still operating on a contract that was signed in 1998.... So this burdon you say that you have carried for so long with no help is now going to the toilet, and you are going to ensure that no other company can even try to promote thier Pay or QOL.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Inquiring minds want to know.

Some quick questions:

-Did management ever say this was a take it or leave it offer? Would a rejection send them screaming from the bargaining table never to return because that is what people seem to believe if we reject this piece of, er, bovine excrement.

-Why couldn't our MEC simply tell management, "we'll be happy to consider a pay freeze AFTER you settle your contract with ASA?" I mean, what right do we have whack our brothers aspirations -- as soon as the ink dries on their contract, we would be all ears.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

What happened to the purpose of this thread?

I still have confidence in the CMR folks to vote no. I am willing to give them that respect since I feel they've earned it. It truly amazes me how easily airline management "teams" can divide and conquer.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

The "facts" of this situation are not in dispute here but everyone seems to weigh them differently. Therefore, the consequences of one's vote are relevent here.

 

[patriotflier]

Most of you Comair guys have a G*D complex. You think your contract is the best of the best and geeze you fly a jet....WHOOPIE!

A little lesson to all those who care to learn! The last I checked the company nor the pilots dictate the need for additional aircraft. In fact the passenegers and thier purchasing habits dictate where and when an aircraft is needed and Delta Marketing makes the decision where and how to meet the demand. Hmmm sounds like what has happened to Walmart vs. Kmart....The consumer through good marketing has caused Walmart to grow explosively and Kmart to shrink....I betcha anything none of the Walmart employees took pay concessions to build new stores! Without the passengers no matter how good your contract is, there will be no growth, job security or future. Hmmm, see so matter what the union tells you about the gaurantee of job security, growth ect...they too are lying because if the company does'nt sell seats and/or continue to grow, then I don't give a dam what your contract says, YOU HAVE NO JOB!

The management is running all the way to the bank with all the money your going to give back. What other industry/job/career have you ever heard of being asked for pay freezes from thier employee(s) to purchase new/more equipment so they can make more money? Hmmmm !~ None I can think of. I would better understand if you Comair guys were voting on a pay freeze because your rates are not competitive, but that is not the case is it! No, it is because you fools have been lied to and now your drinking the kool aid. The growth will happen because it needs to and will happen with out a concessionary vote from Comair pilots.

Something no one has even metioned. When do we HAVE to RETIRE? 60!!
So that limits how much we can earn over a career and ever year we get closer is one less year we have to earn enough to survive on past 60! So take your pay freeze so you can SCREW yourselves and the ASA pilots who needed you in thier corner instead of F^(king us over!

As for who will hire your furloughed pilots? Well if you were not so stuck on yourselves then maybe you would have a chance other places. Other companies have bent over backwards trying to accomodate furloughed pilots. WHAT DID COMAIR DO? Told the Delta pilots to go Scr#w. So you have succeeded in becoming the most disliked pilot group in the industry and that has NOTHING to do with your dam contract!

 

[jetflyer]

BLA BLA BLA, You'll get the PLANES ANYWAYS.......


MORONS,
Comair pilots told management last time when we were approached for concessions to "POUND SAND".

Geniuses,
Did Comair get any new PLANES??

Morons,
I don't think so.

You guys' RIDICULOUS CLAIMS THAT COMAIR WILL GET THE PLANES ANYWAYS ARE MORONIC.

The TRUE REASON ASA, CHQ, and SKW got the airplanes last time is BECAUSE COMAIR PILOTS WITH THEIR HIGHER PAY RATES SAID "NO" THE LAST TIME.


You guys owe Comair for the planes you received.


The true reason you want Comair to vote "NO" IS:
You want Comair's pay AND Comair's potential growth.
You are only thinking of yourselves.

If Comair says "NO" you guys at ASA, CHQ, and SKW WILL RECEIVE THESE AIRPLANES LIKE LAST TIME, and your future hard fought "COMAIR-1% contracts" will be worth more.
You guys have a TON to gain from our "NO" vote.

We didn't get the PLANES last time we said "NO". YOU got them because we said "NO".

You guys want us to fail. You want us to say "NO" and perish, as long as we perish with our CURRENT PAY RATES UNFROZEN. You are only thinking of yourselves.

Yes, we at Comair are thinking of ourselves too, because a "NO" vote is scary for Comair's future. Very scary and could be very devastating.

The fact YOU are not supporting us, SAYS A LOT. It says YOU are selfish.
Sorry, we don't want to KILL our airline. Our concerns are for our companies well being and for our futures at Comair.
Sorry, but you NEED to respect that, and please try to understand.

We do not deserve to be hated because we don't want to kill our airline.

What's ironic is that if anybody should be supporting us, it should be the ASA pilots. Instead, you are only looking out for yourselves and attacking us at Comair. That is very disappointing.

Which ever way this vote goes, we at Comair are going to do what we think is best for us, not you. SORRY.

Please respect that decision, and let us move on together.

Sorry that you don't understand our situation,
Jet

 

[atrdriver]

The TRUE REASON ASA, CHQ, and SKW got the airplanes last time is BECAUSE COMAIR PILOTS WITH THEIR HIGHER PAY RATES SAID "NO" THE LAST TIME.


You guys owe Comair for the planes you received.

Your payrates had nothing to do with the RFP airplanes. Your CASM is still lower than ASA's, even with your payrates. We told them to pound sand too, and we still got the airplanes. I don't owe you anything, you don't owe me anything. But your voting yes has hurt ASA's chances of being able to continue to raise the bar that you WERE (past tense) holding.

 

[jetflyer]

atrdriver,

But helping you WILL HURT us. I wish you could understand that and respect our decision. We're scared of what will happen with a "NO". Put yourself in our shoes.

Once again we're sorry it hurts you, but shouldn't we look out for our pilot group before yours? Please try to understand and let's try to stop the bickering.

Jet

 

[jetflyer]

Oh and you do owe us for the planes you received

Delta wanted to give some of the planes to one of the WOs.

When ASA and COMAIR BOTH said "NO" they gave them to the CHEAPER ONE.

Which one was cheaper??

Oh yea, that was you.

But we're not resentful of you,

Jet

 

[atrdriver]

Oh and you do owe us for the planes you received

Delta wanted to give some of the planes to one of the WOs.

When ASA and COMAIR BOTH said "NO" they gave them to the CHEAPER ONE.

Which one was cheaper??

Oh yea, that was you.

But we're not resentful of you,

Jet

Let me say this again, slow so you can understand it. YOU HAVE A LOWER CASM THAN ASA DOES. If you still don't konw what that means, it means that CMR IS CHEAPER THAN ASA, even with your higher payrates. If DAL wanted to give those RFP airplanes to the cheaper WO operator, YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THEM. No, I don't owe you for those airplanes, nor does any other ASA pilot. We got them because DAL wanted them to go to us. You will get these because DAL wants them to go to you. These airplanes may allow you to hire more pilots, and they may allow a little faster upgrades, but look back in this thread for how much they will end up costing your pilots in real $$. You voted yes so Fred can get a bigger bonus, not so you could get some pretty new planes.