Comair exit poll

[surplus1]

If nothing else, this TA is certainly teaching Comair pilots how many "friends" we have.

If the TA passes perhaps Duane Woerth will refuse to sign it because it is "harmful to the profession". Would that please you?

Those of you that are telling us how evil we are, when we have yet to decide, what would you recommend? Should we adopt the slogan "full pay to the last day?" Or would you prefer "Not one nickel, not one job?"

How many of you are prepared to fall on your swords to give our junior pilots preferential hiring at your airline if they should be furloughed in the future? Can we depend on you to protect them or should we do it ourselves?

If our parent company decides not to buy Comair any airplanes and offers them to you, will you turn them down in protest to help us "preserve the profession" or will you accept them and tell us you're sorry, you just couldn't do anything about it?

What exactly will you do for us if we hold the bar for you?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

[doh]

I voted YES

Cavey, say it ain't so!

 

[doh]

av8tor4239,

I will be watching closely! I know you will surpass our contract by leaps and bounds! If you don't, I will rag you to death!!!

 

[jetflyer]

Quick question though...is there anything written in the contract on a salary freeze for management as well?

Wahoo,

Yes Management MUST stay frozen for as long as the Comair pilots' pay is frozen.

Management has extended the olive branch at Comair. It's a NEW management. It's almost like Comair has a management team now like Southwest or Jetblue, or we hope.

It's a less combative and more cooperative management that cares about it's employees and wants what's best for them and the FUTURE of the company.

Our MEC is impressed with the new management and thinks they are different and very impressive now. Our MEC thinks the LOA is in the Comair pilots best interest. There are a lot of provisions that PROTECT the Comair pilots in the LOA. The MEC endorses the LOA because it is best for the interests OF THE COMAIR PILOTS as a WHOLE.

I frankly was shocked they endorsed it. I thought they would only support the viewpoint of the most senior Comair pilot. They considered ALL OF THE COMAIR PILOTS with this LOA. They did a great job.

Before anyone criticizes me, read our LOA first. Sift through it and see that it's well written and in our best interests.

ASA has their GUARANTEED GROWTH, just like Comair had in their last negotiations in 2001.

You guys aren't looking at the possibility of BEING SHRUNK and HAVING YOUR ASSETS SOLD OFF, to continue the WHIPSAW GAME, that Delta loves to play. That is the fear and the possibility that Comair pilots and the Comair MEC had to graple with on this LOA.

A LOT of Comair pilots GAVE UP their PAY 4 YEARS ago for 89 DAYS for the good of the industry.

Should our JUNIOR PILOTS give up their PAY by BEING FURLOUGHED FOR 4 YEARS+ because Comair gets shrunk from a "NO VOTE" TO HELP THE INDUSTRY???

Many of you will come back and say tirelessly, "THOSE PLANES ARE COMING TO YOU EVEN IF YOU SAY NO". MANY will also say foolishly, "PILOTS DON'T BUY AIRPLANES, THEY FLY THEM." And I say, "You DO NOT KNOW for sure we will get those airplanes" and "DUH".

Are you guys that say that WILLING to pay the salaries of the possible Comair furloughs that occur from the possible transfer of planes caused by a NO VOTE?? I DON'T THINK SO.

A NO VOTE may help ASA and all of the other airlines in this profession, but it could put MANY COMAIR PILOTS ON THE STREET. WOULD THAT MAKE YOU GUYS HAPPY?

ANSWER THIS:
Would Comair voting NO on this LOA and then having their planes transfered to ASA and CHQ make you guys HAPPY?

Then YOU GUYS COULD SAY, "THOSE Comair pilots sure are SWELL HELPING THE INDUSTRY AGAIN!!! HOW NICE OF THOSE COMAIR PILOTS!!"

Consider that,

Jet

 

[Alchemy]

No criticism here if it passes. At least the wages had give (gave) you a helluva bargaining chip to use for growth. That's more than the rest of us can say. I just hope we won't be in the same boat in a couple of years since we have considerably less to bargain with......

 

[homerjdispatch]

To gt this back on topic....

How is the poll looking?

 

[~~~^~~~]

If the TA passes perhaps Duane Woerth will refuse to sign it because it is "harmful to the profession". Would that please you?

Yes - any sign of leadership from Herndon would be appreciated.

The Comair MEC has entered into an agreement out of its narrow self interest.

Getting Comair to commit to a number of airplanes is not a solution to dealing with the Delta MEC's "left over barganing." This is just whipsaw and you have let your lust for the E170 cloud your perceptions if you don't think Chautauqua and ASA will lap you on the race to the bottom.

This agreement is not granting legitimacy to Comair's current cost structure. Mr. Barnette said he thought the idea of going to the Comair pilots for concessions was crazy - he would not make that same statement now.

We don't know for sure what this market will do and how Delta will have to react. We do know that Delta's plans involved oil at $40 a barrell and that market reality is $49. That, my friend, makes more difference in the operational results than Comair's pay freeze.

All the Comair pilots have done is inform management that concessionary deals are possible at Connection - particularly if they buy jobs.

Cheers to all those wanting "their 1,000 hours PIC" to get out. This profession is going down the tubes because pilots, MEC's and ALPA National is ignoring the profession as every individual rewards their most selfish inclinations.

As a fellow RJDC supporter, which I thought you were, how can you support predatory barganing on your own property with your own management? There is a fault line in the moral high ground you occupy.

Respectfully,
~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

Comair your Delta Concession carrier

He writes:

Management has extended the olive branch at Comair. It's a NEW management. It's almost like Comair has a management team now like Southwest or Jetblue, or we hope.

It's a less combative and more cooperative management that cares about it's employees and wants what's best for them and the FUTURE of the company.

Our MEC is impressed with the new management and thinks they are different and very impressive now. Our MEC thinks the LOA is in the Comair pilots best interest. There are a lot of provisions that PROTECT the Comair pilots in the LOA. The MEC endorses the LOA because it is best for the interests OF THE COMAIR PILOTS as a WHOLE.

Then he writes:

You guys aren't looking at the possibility of BEING SHRUNK and HAVING YOUR ASSETS SOLD OFF, to continue the WHIPSAW GAME, that Delta loves to play. That is the fear and the possibility that Comair pilots and the Comair MEC had to graple with on this LOA.

You babe in the woods. All management teams have a honeymoon. They have the answers, they have ideas. Just like us in the crew lounge - we all know how to run an airline.

Until we are faced with reality. Your precious new management team ( which is actually the same managers that ran the current show & denied your growth from Delta ) and their Delta friends whipsawed you and being relatively inexperienced in this industry - you drank the cool aid.

New airplanes require lead time. New fleet types require more lead time. Comair went ( what was it 18 months? ) without a new jet? boo frickin hoo. You will get 70 seat jets and at least 10 more 50 seat jets anyway. I even bet the fist 10 will arrive on your ramp the same time the GECAS jets show up on ASA's ramp.

ASA pilots said "pound sand" and got the airplanes. Comair would have gotten the airplanes as Delta needed them in their network. The CVG Enquirer quoted your management, writing that this was not an "economic deal." ALPA said they had not determined the cost. Well if it was not economic - then it was moral - Comair management had a point to make.

Perhaps they can move the Comair Academy to CVG and have a program to get 1,000 hours of part 121 PIC. How much would you be willing to pay for that?

But don't be smug in your concessionary jets. ASA is still in negotiations.

~~~^~~~

 

[Caveman]

doh,

I wish it weren't so, but it is. I'm just looking at what I percieve as the economic reality of the industry and our position in it. I'm not crazy about voting yes but I honestly believe it is the lessor of two evils. I respect the no voters position and I almost changed my vote yesterday morning. That's how tough a call this is for a lot of us.

The other thing that really sucks about this is as recently as a month a two ago I was proclaiming how CMR pilots would never trade concessions for growth. Now I find myself in the odious position of not only having to eat my own words but actually voting for concessions myself. Make no mistake a freeze is a concession. I still think it's the right thing to do though and I'm prepared to take the heat for changing my mind. Holding hard and fast to a conviction just because your pride won't allow you to be percieved as being wrong is immature and not very wise. The circumstances have changed and I've changed with them. I really, really hate the taste of crow though.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I no longer work for Comair and haven't read the language in your agreement. I did, however, hear through the grapevine that it includes job protection provisions including minimum fleet size.

Furlough protection language is a waste of paper, but any time you can get contractual language which includes an actual measuring stick -- then I believe you have to consider it. Minimum number of hulls, minimum captain positions, minimum block hours ALL have the effect of securing a certain number of jobs.

Caveman, I respect you and ANY pilot who is willing to sacrifice in order to protect the jobs of the more junior pilots. My respect doesn't buy much these days i'm afraid, but (shrug) it is what it is.

As a guy who'se been furloughed way too many times, I can not begin to tell you how important it is to me to see pilots working outside of the box to foster job-security.

Hopefully this wasn't about a shiny new jet. Hopefully this was about filling a gaping hole in the existing contract. While you might never have been able to negotiate "scope" with Comair management, you found a way around it. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe it won't work. Maybe it will. At least you tried. And in a post-09/11 world, TRYING to preserve jobs is commendable.

I know this is hard for you guys. I'm proud of you for listening to both sides and doing what you think is right to secure the long term future of Comair and the jobs of your fellow pilots.

 

[uncle]

wacopilot,

you hit the nail on the head. we (comair pilots) are not the problem, it's the rest of the pilot groups who have taken horrible concessions for a little growth. Don't blame us, look in the mirror and bitch out the little cry baby staring back at you.

 

[uncle]

wacopilot,

you hit the nail on the head. we (comair pilots) are not the problem, it's the rest of the pilot groups who have taken horrible concessions for a little growth. Don't blame us, look in the mirror and bitch out the little cry baby staring back at you.

 

[Otto]

Poll Results as of Thursday

To gt this back on topic....

How is the poll looking?

As of this morning (2/24) the exit poll is showing 59% IN FAVOR and 41% AGAINST with 177 pilots reporting or roughlly 10% of the pilot group. The interesting thing is that three days ago it was 68% FOR and 32% AGAINST so it appears the No's are are gaining ground and the gap is narrowing. My theory is that some of the No's waited to see the road show presentation before making up their mind and after seeing it, were not satisfied.

There were a few other questions in the poll and one was "do you believe Comair will get the airplanes even if we say NO"? Well 75% answered the question with a "NO" so there is your primary motivation for how people are voting. With a number of aircraft reaching the end of their service lives many feel the next step if we say no is concessions for the status quo meaning take a pay cut or retired aircraft will not be replaced, therefore we shrink. Nobody wants to go down that road. We're happy to hold the bar above everybody else but nobody wants to see our guys furloughed so others may prosper. Of course we want to stay strong with ASA and with that goal, is it not better to ensure these aircraft go to the WO's? If we said no to help our brothers at ASA and the planes came there instead of Comair, would the pilots of ASA refuse to fly them????

I'm not trying to divide the ASA/Comair pilots as I believe unity is of the upmost importance. I don't think this will do as much damage to the ASA negotiations as they fear because unlike the RFP last year, this leaves our work rules intact and simply freezes pay. We pilots focus too much on pay but overall it's not too different from regional to regional...the real value of our contract is the work rules and they remain unchaged even if this proposal passes.

Hey, one more thing about this poll. Remember it's an exit poll...the exit polls for the Presidential election showed Kerry as the winner.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Oh Yeah...

buying Airplanes Is Not Your Freaking Job.....

F.Y.I. - We are not buying airplanes (how many RJ's does 14-16 million buy), we are getting our costs in line with everyone who has refused to hold the line or has taken concessions over the last 3 years. If we want to continue growing, we have no choice. That's the deal, now where is my coffee...

P.S. The answer to my question is about 3/4 of 1

 

[skyslug]

I agree with that assessment...I think that sums it up.