Comair exit poll

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

wacopilot,

you hit the nail on the head. we (comair pilots) are not the problem, it's the rest of the pilot groups who have taken horrible concessions for a little growth. Don't blame us, look in the mirror and bitch out the little cry baby staring back at you.

Wrong. If this vote passes, you can count yourselves in the same category as the rest. Comair pilots have been a highly admired pilot group--not because of your pay rates, but because of your willingness to stand unified and strong for what you deserve.

 

[jarhead]

Wrong. If this vote passes, you can count yourselves in the same category as the rest. Comair pilots have been a highly admired pilot group--not because of your pay rates, but because of your willingness to stand unified and strong for what you deserve.

And besides, it's so cool to be a martyr for all the other folks..........NOT. What you didn't do for yourselves, you expect others to do for you? Gimme a break!

 

[skyslug]

RSVWindsurfer, Wrong again. You guys perceive us to be admired not because we stood "strong and unified" for what WE believed we deserved but because some of the other pilot groups were unable to stand up for themselves - they lived "unity" vicariously through us.

 

[jetstream]

Remember: A bird in hand is worth to in the bush.
Your career is a marathon not a sprint.

Just ask yourself; what I am I worth? Then vote accordingly.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Wrong. If this vote passes, you can count yourselves in the same category as the rest. Comair pilots have been a highly admired pilot group--not because of your pay rates, but because of your willingness to stand unified and strong for what you deserve.

Yes, we have been extremely unified and have stood strong. But we have gone at it pretty much alone, and the time has come where we can no longer afford to "hold the line" alone. Comair led the way with the strike and no one followed. We are done doing everyone else's dirty work trying to save the industry; it's time to save ourselves. Again, that's the deal. Now where's my beer (it's almost noon).

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

You vote yes, you whore yourselves out just like every other regional pilot. I don't get all the finger pointing. You're all the same, Comair (and the high and mighty, to himself anyway, surplus 1) included.

I've been saying all along that you can't go around pointing fingers at ALPA, other pilot groups, other pilots for your own problems, failings and shortcomings. One of these days you have to stand up and look in the mirror and admit that THERE lies the real root of your problems. Your own pitiful self.

 

[jarhead]

You vote yes, you whore yourselves out just like every other regional pilot. I don't get all the finger pointing. You're all the same, Comair (and the high and mighty, to himself anyway, surplus 1) included.

I've been saying all along that you can't go around pointing fingers at ALPA, other pilot groups, other pilots for your own problems, failings and shortcomings. One of these days you have to stand up and look in the mirror and admit that THERE lies the real root of your problems. Your own pitiful self.

You really are quite pitiful yourself, Doosh. No one has been as strong as the Comair pilot group. Most of the other cry babies around here are just cheerleaders, and never take the field where you might experience some pain and get hurt yourself. Go secure your own life; don't expect other to do it for you.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Go secure your own life; don't expect other to do it for you.

My point exactly. I guess reading comprehension was never your strong suit.

How's Junior? Can HE speak for himself, or are you still doing it for him?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

{QUOTE]
ASA has their GUARANTEED GROWTH, just like Comair had in their last negotiations in 2001.
[/QUOTE]

GUARANTEED GROWTH? 'Hey ASA, if you take a pay cut or cancel your negotiations we will give you 25 more airplanes.'

I believe the response was along the lines of "Uh, no, also bite me"
Gee, we got 25 airplanes....

It is truly scary to think that the belief is that Freddy is going to 'give' you more airplanes. Just say no and you will get them anyway.
Do you really think that Delta does not know where airframes are going???

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

And besides, it's so cool to be a martyr for all the other folks..........NOT. What you didn't do for yourselves, you expect others to do for you? Gimme a break!

A martyr because you don't get guaranteed growth and you keep your bigger pay? A little dramatic don't you think? What we didn't do for ourselves? Do you think you could have gotten those pay rates in the past 2 years? I don't. Shoot, if this passes, you can't even keep them. Also, your pay will be practically identical to XJT's (less when prof. shar. is factored in) when all is said and done, and that is unfortunate since our pay is less than stellar.

I am not trying to add fuel to this fire. You guys will do what you feel is best for you. My point is, if you feel concessions for growth is best for you, you are no different than CHQ, MESA, IMHO.

 

[jarhead]

My point exactly. I guess reading comprehension was never your strong suit.

How's Junior? Can HE speak for himself, or are you still doing it for him?

He speaks quite well for himself....thank you. Just not on these boards, but over on the CMR ALPA boards. No, I don't speak for him, but I may tend to echo some of his sentiment over here.

My reading comprehension is just fine. Thanks for asking.

Thus endeth my side of the pi$$ing contest.

Over and out, doosh

 

[JI Gone OH]

I am not trying to add fuel to this fire. You guys will do what you feel is best for you. My point is, if you feel concessions for growth is best for you, you are no different than CHQ, MESA, IMHO.

When you go into the sim. for your checkride, would you agree that your Non Flying Pilot either makes you or breaks you? Well the analogy applies to what we are being faced with now in this "freeze for growth" plan. Our N.F.P. has crapped out (i.e. most of the other "regionals"), we have been "holding the line" single pilot way too long, and can no longer afford to do it. We can't be expected to try and save this industry by ourselves. We are 1 fish in a big pond, and it appeared as though we were going to swim alone. As the saying goes, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Sorry my friend, I can certainly see your side of the coin, but it doesn't look the same over here. Self preservation, it's as simple as that.

And for those who think we will get the airplanes regardless, no way. Fred can't come in here, ask for concessions for growth, be told to pack sand, and then reward us. Not gonna' happen. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Someone join me for a beer, I hate drinking alone...

 

[MetroSheriff]

No one has been as strong as the Comair pilot group.

Well said, given the past tense.

Justify it all you want. A yes vote drops you in the same bucket as the rest, with a little higher rate of pay.

You sound like an escort calling a street walker a ho.

 

[jarhead]

Well said, given the past tense.

Justify it all you want. A yes vote drops you in the same bucket as the rest, with a little higher rate of pay.

You sound like an escort calling a street walker a ho.

Comair pilots have been Superman for far too long, especially when some of the other groups walk around with Kryptonite in their pockets. They're human too, and eventually, ya do need to take care of your own needs, and drop the martyr thing for the rest of the sector.

 

[MetroSheriff]

.... human too, and eventually, ya do need to take care of your own needs, and drop the martyr thing for the rest of the sector.

SO you would advocate ASA using our current negotiations to secure rates of pay and benefits that would ensure we get additional aircraft before Comair?

You know...to take care of our own needs.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Comair pilots have been Superman for far too long, especially when some of the other groups walk around with Kryptonite in their pockets. They're human too, and eventually, ya do need to take care of your own needs, and drop the martyr thing for the rest of the sector.

Wow. Thanks for the pre-school analogy.

 

[jarhead]

Wow. Thanks for the pre-school analogy.

You're welcome. One needs to know the audience one is speaking to. Hope it wasn't too complex for you. If it was, I'd have to resort to the actual comic books, but the moderators don't allow for pictures to be posted here.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The Comair MEC had to TA this contract amendment or risk being booted in the next elections. Remember, ASA received the additional growth recently (even though our MEC stood strong).

Anyone who thinks that Fred Buttrell is going to make you the next Jet Blue or Southwest- GET REAL. This is the same hoser who was pulling the strings before. He wants a CEO job at Delta and this is his way of showing the world he can take anything from labor he wants. Comair pilots are weak for even considering this, and frankly so is the MEC.

So what will the big EMB-170 pay? Probably just the fargin same as the CRJ's you have now. You will sell yourselves and ASA pilots out for NOTHING!

Those who vote 'yes', are one of two things:

1. Kiddie Kaptains with big dreams of flying a "real" airliner.

2. Middle-age men with no degree and dreams of flying a "real" airliner.

 

[jarhead]

Those who vote 'yes', are one of two things:

1. Kiddie Kaptains with big dreams of flying a "real" airliner.

2. Middle-age men with no degree and dreams of flying a "real" airliner.

That's a very broad brush you paint with there sir, and you are incorrect in that assesment. The vast majority of pilots at Comair have four year degrees, and an awful lot of them intend to make a career at Comair. Not all, to be sure, but a great many of them. I know them. 10, 15, and close to 20 year captains on the Comair seniority list.

By the way, this is not speculation on my part. I know a great number of Comair pilots pesonally, and your invention in the above little post is false.

Don't invent this stuff. It only tends to make you look foolish, and when you look foolish, none of your other ideas are taken seriously.

 

[chperplt]

You guys act like anything CMR does will have some kind of effect on you.. Have you been able to get CMR wages during your years of negotiations? Have you been able to come close? I didn't think so.

So.. What we (CMR) do doesn't seem to have any effect, good or bad, on what happens with you or your contract. At least logic and current events would assume that.

 

[av8tor4239]

And for those who think we will get the airplanes regardless, no way. Fred can't come in here, ask for concessions for growth, be told to pack sand, and then reward us. Not gonna' happen. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Someone join me for a beer, I hate drinking alone...

Guess what... Fred can go in there ask for concessions, hopefully get denied by your pilot group, and then HE CAN STILL TAKE THE AIRPLANES FROM DELTA.. It is not Fred's decisoin weather you get the airplanes or not... It is DCI, and Delta. Like I said.. They are already being painted with Comair colors and if you pass this thing, Fred will be toasting champaign and lauging at you!

 

[viper01]

exactly what management wants to see, cmr and asa breaking their unity.

 

[av8tor4239]

And the comair pilots that voted YES to this proposal are the spear head of the broken unitiy... These pilots that voted yes do not know the history of aviation management. If the FAA would allow them to put monkeys in the cockpit, managment would do it. They dont care about you...

Look at Leo Mullins (ex CEO of Delta) He got in when it was good and left when things got tough and almost broke the airline with his golden parachute and severance... How many Laborers lost their jobs because of what Leo Mullins took from Delta after he left..

what makes you think Fred Brutrell is any different?

Do you think he cares, Did he tell you in one of his road shows that he cares about you and your family? Did he tell you that this is what is good for comair... Guess what this is what is good for FRED and all his cronies... And if you belive what they have told you you are a fool.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

exactly what management wants to see, cmr and asa breaking their unity.

Now that didn't take long, did it?

A year ago we were clammoring for a common list -- there is even a section of the BB with photos, statements, proclamations, letters to management, ad nauseum. A real Kume Buy Ah moment if I had any idea how to spell it.

A few weeks ago we got these nifty little stickers (and I mean little) voicing our support.

Voting NO doesn't mean management wont be back with a better offer, but voting yes guarantees they'll never put a better offer on the table.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

VERY well said. Pretty much sums it up.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Guess what... Fred can go in there ask for concessions, hopefully get denied by your pilot group, and then HE CAN STILL TAKE THE AIRPLANES FROM DELTA..

Sure he CAN, but he won't. Semantics If we get the planes anyway, his credibility goes out the window. I would imagine that he has bigger plans for himself than COMAIR someday, so the decisions he makes now could come back to haunt him.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Guess what... Fred can go in there ask for concessions, hopefully get denied by your pilot group, and then HE CAN STILL TAKE THE AIRPLANES FROM DELTA..

Sure he CAN, but he won't. Semantics If we get the planes anyway, his credibility goes out the window. I would imagine that he has bigger plans for himself than COMAIR someday, so the decisions he makes now could come back to haunt him.

 

[av8tor4239]

JI, How is it that you "KNOW" he wont... Just so Fred can save face.... these guys dont care about what they look like to you.. They care about what is going into their pockets... That is why they are asking for concessions... THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE... THE COMAIR PILOTS HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE.

 

[JI Gone OH]

JI, How is it that you "KNOW" he wont... Just so Fred can save face.... these guys dont care about what they look like to you.. They care about what is going into their pockets... That is why they are asking for concessions... THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE... THE COMAIR PILOTS HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE.

Your right, I don't "KNOW" that he won't, but I am not willing to take a chance that he will come back with a better offer or that we will get the airplanes if we tell him to pack sand. Personally, I am done trying to hold the line for the rest of this industry. The other "regionals" were supposed to be our wingmen, and most of you have left us hanging. We have received little help from anyone since the strike to try and make this industry better, and we're done. We have been forced to make things better for ourselves, and freezing our pay with guaranteed growth is certainly a way of assuring that. Selfish, yes, but tough sh*t....

 

[surplus1]

The difference between Comair pilots and the rest of you naysayers is simple. We see ourselves as John the Baptist. You want to confuse us with the Messiah.

We are not your "saviors" and we know it. We don't have the ability to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven, and we know that too.

If we drop the cross one more time we'll be out of the parade. So spare us the palm fronds of last week and get the message. We are not going to allow you to crucify us so that you can laugh while you fight each other for our garments.

We're going to do what we have to do now to preserve our own skins. The rest of you have already proven beyond any doubt that you won't hesitate to benefit from our downfall. You've done it before and you'll do it again at the first opportunity. Well, this time we're going to take care of ouselves as we see fit.

We don't all agree with each other and we never have. However, we're not going to shaft our junior people, like many of you have, so that you can continue to staff your left seats with J4J captains while you starve your own FO's and deny their seniority rights.

Our only real concern is the folks at ASA. We'll continue to support their efforts in the same way that they supported ours. But, we won't commit suicide to do it; just as they didn't commit suicide for us. We can't be of any benefit to them by giving our upgrades to CHQ or some other newcomer just so you can boast of your one-year upgrades.

Yes, it will cost us a lot of money to do this. The key word is "US". It won't cost you a dime and you know it. You aren't really worried about what happens to Comair, you're worried about what happens to YOU, and it shows.

So, spare us the hypocrisy and let us decide for ourselves what we want to do for ourselves, instead of railing us about what you think we should do for YOU.

Your expressed concern for our welfare is disingenuous and transparent. This one is OUR call, whichever way it goes. It's not easy and we'll be stuggling with each other for a long time no matter what we ultimately decide. We'll solve that internal problem just as we have before; we'll overcome it and emerge together. When we have, the rest of you will still be looking in our direction and arguing about whether to hate us or love us, just as you are today. Nothing new about that.

Check back on March 1 and you'll learn what we have decided.