Comair exit poll

[atrdriver]

LMAO....You were offered our contract?...LMAO. Somehow I doubt it. We do work for the same overall management right? If you have proof of that one, please do show us.

Laugh till you puke if it makes you feel better. ASA WAS offered CMR's contract, as written, when we started negotiations. We were aspiring to better what you had when we went into negotiations, so we turned down the offer. Who knows what we can get now that our brothers have accepted concessions for growth.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128,

I stand corrected, you don't care about your fellow reserve CAs and FOs or the bottom of your seniority list, so YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT NEW PLANES.

Sorry jetflyer, but that's just life. Growth has to stop at some point. No company can continue to grow perpetually. Whether it is tomorrow or next year or 5 years from now, at some point the management at the mainline carriers will realize that there are too many RJs crowding up the skies and then the regional growth will stop. Yes, there will be pilots stuck on reserve for a very long time. Yes, upgrades will take many years. Again, that's just the way business works. You can't keep undercutting forever to try to continue the growth. We are employees, not a charitable organization. We aren't here to buy management new airplanes.

I hope we can mend these fences and regain our full support for each other one day.

Don't count on it. If you take these concessions then you are far worse than Mesa as far as I am concerned. At least Mesa had an alter-ego non-union airline stealing their flying to justify their accepting of such a crappy contract in order to stop Freedom. The Comair pilots have no such thing. You are just willing to whore yourself out for new airplanes with shiny new paint on them. If there was even the slightest possibility that you would lose your current airplanes then I might be able to sympathize, but I just can't accept concessions for GROWTH.

Also, I guarantee, YOU MAY NOT, but if the rest of your pilot group were offered a deal like the one offered to Comair pilots, THEY WOULD TAKE IT IN A HEART BEAT.

I garinteeee

Jet

I certainly can't speak for the entire pilot group, but it would certainly be a NO vote from me. I also doubt that the DTW pilot group would vote yes on such a deal. As for the pilots in the other bases, I just don't know. It's possible, but I would denounce my own pilot group just as loudly if they accepted the deal you are supporting.

 

[jetflyer]

Jet which is it? You want full support, or you want us undercutting each other for airplanes?

You need those fences - to keep a bunch of angry ASA pilots from kicking your little self serving, I'm all for me, butt.

I believe YOU should support us for our decision here. You need to see that we have been cornered.

They've got us where they want us.
They've got us scared.
They have us wondering what will happen if there is a "NO" vote and believing the worst.
They win this time. We are guaranteed to not go below 199 aircraft even if some of the airplanes are retired for age. We have been given a good deal.

I think we're gonna take it.
I think you need to come to an understanding over that.
I think you need to support us even if we're making a wrong decision.
I think you need to support us for the better of our unity.

We are sorry and that is all we can say,

Jet

 

[atrdriver]

Hey look, I'm not sure what the answer is for you guys down in ATL. What I do know is that I have been at COMAIR for over 3 years, and y'all have been negociating for just about the entire time I have been here. I appreciate and believe that you were planning on raising the bar, but the question is when? We can't afford to sit around and wait for you, and in the meantime watch these airplanes continue be allocated to other "portfolio" carriers, esp. the non-WO's like CHQ. It's time for us to either ride the pine or get in the game. I prefer the latter....

Just how long do you think that CMR was in negotiations before they were released to strike? Maybe you should ask around. If you think that the ASA pilots have something to do with the length of our negotiations you are sadly mistaken.

 

[jetflyer]

Don't count on it. If you take these concessions then you are far worse than Mesa as far as I am concerned. At least Mesa had an alter-ego non-union airline stealing their flying to justify their accepting of such a crappy contract in order to stop Freedom. The Comair pilots have no such thing. You are just willing to whore yourself out for new airplanes with shiny new paint on them.
I

We have CHQ, SKW, ASA, and even MESA along with all the other regionals willing to undercut COMAIR to worry about.

Jet

p.s. gotta go eat dinner with my wife, have fun chatting

 

[Wacopilot]

atrdriver

And who did we have helping us during negotiations????? Not one airline. We did it on our own much like you at ASA should do if you want to be successful. If you think that CMR is going to give you the ability to gain a positive working agreement then you are mistaken. Quit riding my back, your weighing me down! Now go find your own ball to play with. You negotiate your contract and I will negotiate mine.ASA needs to step up and prove that you have the Ba!!s to fight for a good contract. The top is a lonely place. With that said, I voted no.


Waco

 

[~~~^~~~]

We have CHQ, SKW, ASA, and even MESA along with all the other regionals willing to undercut COMAIR to worry about.

Jet

Yep - well you have shown us the way. In negotiations the smarter person will try to not give the other party emotional reasons to take unreasonable positions. Your MEC failed to take care not to severely pi$$ off the ASA pilots. We might just come after you for spite. What if we all use your logic in deciding how to vote? But, we do agree about one thing - my hot girlfriend is home from work and the weather is a lot better in Atlanta than CVG. Thinking it is time to pull the top off the zoom zoom machine that sits on the battery charger until days like this.

 

[~~~^~~~]

atrdriver

And who did we have helping us during negotiations????? Not one airline. We did it on our own much like you at ASA should do if you want to be successful.

With that said, I voted no.

Waco

Waco, I sent money from my business to cater lunch (BBQ as I recall) for your guys in MCO, sent money for pilot assistance and sent much more money to the RJDC. You sound ungrateful.

But you voted no - and I am grateful for that.

 

[atrdriver]

atrdriver

And who did we have helping us during negotiations????? Not one airline. We did it on our own much like you at ASA should do if you want to be successful.

Waco

Well, you sure as he!! didn't have ASA signing an agreement to freeze our pay for some new airplanes when you were in negotiations. As I remember we set the bar, then you topped it. So we DID hold up the bar for a while, and the CMR pilots can get off their high horses about having the best contract in the regional industry. We had it, you topped it, and we intended to top yours. I hope that we still can after this. And thank you for voting no.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Now that I know Jetflyer wasn't there for the strike it all makes sense. It sure is easy to justify giving away what you were not involved with earning in the first place.

 

[jarhead]

Now that I know Jetflyer wasn't there for the strike it all makes sense. It sure is easy to justify giving away what you were not involved with earning in the first place.

Yes.....that makes perfect sense to me. ONLY those Comair pilots who were employed there during the strike should be allowed to vote on any contract related issues. Only the 1200 who were there in March of 2001 should have a vote. The additional 700 who were hired afterwards should NOT have a vote that affects their well being.

THAT, is what makes sense to me, and the logic is sound! (unless of course you certify that your vote will be a "no" vote)

 

[JI Gone OH]

The additional 700 who were hired afterwards should NOT have a vote that affects their well being.

THAT, is what makes sense to me, and the logic is sound! (unless of course you certify that your vote will be a "no" vote)

Are you for real! Tell you what, you're full scale deflection. Go Missed and Hold as Published until the fog clears, and then come back for the visual. Oh, and don't call us, we'll call you.

 

[jarhead]

Calm down bud. Don't you recognize sarcasm when you see it? I'm on your side of this issue.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Calm down bud. Don't you recognize sarcasm when you see it? I'm on your side of this issue.

I owe you an apology then. I stand corrected. Nice Weekend....

 

[Freebrd]

Comments like this from CMR pilots make me regret sending my own funds during their strike. And I even received a letter from their MEc Chair thanking me! Vote NO and grow a pair!

 

[surplus1]

Waco, I sent money from my business to cater lunch (BBQ as I recall) for your guys in MCO, sent money for pilot assistance and sent much more money to the RJDC. You sound ungrateful.

Careful Fins, you're entitled to your opinions but you're beginning to sound like a Delta pilot.

Don't bring the RJDC into this, it has nothing to do with it. I will also tell you that if your long proclaimed support for the RJDC was genuine and you truly believed in those issues and principles, this separate and totally unrelated subject would not change your mind.

You're letting your emotions control your thinking. I'm not asking you to agree with Comair pilots and I am not asking you to agree with a proposal/LOA that you probably haven't even read and that we ourselves have not yet decided upon. The vote is still in progress, it is not yet final. Express your opinios freely, but try to employ enough logic to prevent a result that is the opposite of what you would like. You're getting real close to that edge.

You said you had "rested your case" against JetFlyer and that were going to call Surplus to the stand. Just so you know, JetFlyer is a Comair pilot and he is not standing alone. More will follow, so stay tuned.

 

[jetflyer]

Jarhead,

That was hilarious. I just read your comment about the 700 of us that came after the strike. I sat here with my mouth open and my eyes bulging out staring at the screen in disbelief.

I wasn't sure you were being sarcastic either. I was thinking the same thing as "JI Gone OH" for a second there.

Then when I read you were being sarcastic, I laughed uncontrollably for a second. Thanks for being on the side of us junior guys.

Last I checked Junior or Senior, I and the 700 that came after the strike are still Comair pilots. We still have a voice.

I'm glad people listen to us and don't disregard us for their benefit only.

Thank you,
Jet

 

[jetflyer]

You said you had "rested your case" against JetFlyer and that were going to call Surplus to the stand. Just so you know, JetFlyer is a Comair pilot and he is not standing alone. More will follow, so stay tuned.

Thank you Surplus.

Jet

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted. PM sent to Surplus.

 

[737 Pylt]

Careful Fins, you're entitled to your opinions but you're beginning to sound like a Delta pilot.

Yeah, those pesky Delta pilots. You know the ones who knock down regional pilots, especially comair in particular! Surplus, shouldn't you be on your soap box preaching how great comair is and how lousy every other commuter is.
You are a hypocrite!
737

 

[737 Pylt]

and sent much more money to the RJDC.

That's it fins, keep sending those checks to ford's lawyer, he's laughing all the way to the bank, and so am I!
737

 

[av8tor4239]

Hey look, I'm not sure what the answer is for you guys down in ATL. What I do know is that I have been at COMAIR for over 3 years, and y'all have been negotiating for just about the entire time I have been here. I appreciate and believe that you were planning on raising the bar, but the question is when? We can't afford to sit around and wait for you, and in the meantime watch these airplanes continue be allocated to other "portfolio" carriers, esp. the non-WO's like CHQ. It's time for us to either ride the pine or get in the game. I prefer the latter....

I do understand and respect your views, but what you see and what we see are 2 very different pictures.

I started a thread called "BOTTOM FEEDERS" about a month ago about people like you... I know you are one of them from this statement...

The jist of the thread is that people that are getting hired by regionals now days are totally ignorant to the process of aviation contract negotiations.. Gone OH.. YOu have proven yourself TOTALLY ignorant to the negotiation process.. People like you should not be allowed to vote.. You are like the people in the Walmart in West Memphis Ark. YOu should not be allowed to breed.

 

[av8tor4239]

atrdriver

And who did we have helping us during negotiations????? Not one airline. We did it on our own much like you at ASA should do if you want to be successful. If you think that CMR is going to give you the ability to gain a positive working agreement then you are mistaken. Quit riding my back, your weighing me down! Now go find your own ball to play with. You negotiate your contract and I will negotiate mine.ASA needs to step up and prove that you have the Ba!!s to fight for a good contract. The top is a lonely place. With that said, I voted no.


Waco

Waco... I would like to thank you for voting NO.. You have made a wise decision.. I must respond to your statement though...

Our two MEC's are the strongest entity in the "regional" business.. You might have signed your contract on your own, but you did it PRE 9/11 and guess what, TIMES HAVE CHANGED. We need your support to take advantage to raise the "regional" QOL and Pay Scale bar. And the funny thing is.... Drumm roll please.... You will need us when it comes time for you to renegotiate!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted

 

[JI Gone OH]

I started a thread called "BOTTOM FEEDERS" about a month ago about people like you... I know you are one of them from this statement...

The jist of the thread is that people that are getting hired by regionals now days are totally ignorant to the process of aviation contract negotiations.. Gone OH.. YOu have proven yourself TOTALLY ignorant to the negotiation process.. People like you should not be allowed to vote. You are like the people in the Walmart in West Memphis Ark. YOu should not be allowed to breed. QUOTE]

I am not going to sit here and waste my time defending myself to the likes of you and your juvenile insults, but I will have you know that Comair is not my first airline. With flying for three (3) 121 carriers now, you can rest assured knowing that I am more than privy to the contract negotiation process. I venture to bet that I have existed in this industry a little bit longer and have seen just a little bit more than you. Don't misinterpret me and suggest that I am saying I am any "smarter," but the rules of the game have changed, and if you don't wake up and see that pretty d*mn quick the ships going to leave and you'll be left behind.

Like Fins, I certainly understand and respect your point of view; in fact I welcome it. Try and lay off the insults and the childish banter as you'll give yourself a lot more credibilty. Nice weekend.....

P.S. I am only 1 vote out of 1900. My ignorance shouldn't effect the outcome too much.

P.S.S. Who did you fly that E-145 for Bro? It wouldn't be one of those "BOTTOM FEEDERS" like me you alluded to above would it ;-)

 

[av8tor4239]

P.S.S. Who did you fly that E-145 for Bro? It wouldn't be one of those "BOTTOM FEEDERS" like me you alluded to above would it ;-)

The reference bottom feeder has to do with the type of people that are getting hired at the airlines right now... The regionals dont have to offer what they used to.. it is no longer a stepping stone like it used to be... I have had several experiences where I have been on the crew bus in the past few months and ran into newhires for our company that were very cocky and had attitudes towards there job, that they could do better than the job that they just got hired into..
Bottom Feeders was not a reference to any one particular airline, but it was a reference to a particular kind of newhire pilot.

I flew the E-145 for continental express back in 2001.. I was quickly furloughed after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. I got the priviledge to work as a ramp agent for a year before ASA was kind enough to offer me employment.. I turned down my recall to Continetal Express and Stayed with ASA..

PS.. I dont hate you, I just feel very stronly about the vote that is on your Table and have very strong opinions about pilots selling out to management for growth..

I strongly believe that your management team told you things that are completely untrue about mother delta reducing your flying and your fleet... i also feel very strongly that you have a very secure place in the connection market and this is a way for Fred and Delta main to prove to the world that they can control yours and our contracts. I also feel very strongly, weather you have yes or no vote to your LOA, you will get the growth airplanes.

 

[C425Driver]

Just a few thoughts here.

First, for those of you who think that Comair pilots are running scared and flocking to the polls to vote YES, the current exit poll shows 57% YES to 43% NO. This shows that we are clearly divided on this topic. So please don't stereotype all of us for tucking our tails and giving in to Fast Freddy.

Second, for those of you who think that the new pay matrix will sustain us as the highest paid regional pilots, you are mistaken. A couple of pilots posted the figures on the CMR APLA message boards. Here's a summary:

The pay example given to us in the LOA shows the pay for a current 5 year Captain. A 5 year Captain will earn 68.13/hr and will be frozen at that rate. When the freeze is over in June 2007, this Captain will go to the next longevity step, or 6 year pay (70.23/hr).

If you compare our 6 year pay to other 6 year pay rates for our peer airlines in 2007, we are indeed at the top of the industry pay rates.

But wait! If you don't drink the Cool Aid, you will realize that the 6 year pay rate at Comair will only come after 8 YEARS OF SERVICE! Compare the pay rate for 8 YOS at Comair to 8 YOS at our peer airlines in 2007 and we are almost at the bottom of the industry for pay rates. Don't let JC and Freddy Krueger fool you into thinking that our pay will be somthing to aspire to.

Third, I have been at comair since before the strike. There seems to be a stereotype that we all think that those of us who we there at the time are better than the rest of you. When I show up to work every day, I see a pilot group that is humble, yet proud of what we accomplished in 2001. There are a few vocal braggarts on here who like to blow their own horns, but they do not speak for the majority of us. Like my fellow Comair pilots, I am proud of what we accomplished, but I do not think for a second that I am better than anyone else. Every airline that has voted in a contract since we did in 2001 did what they thought was right. Did they do what was right for themselves? For the industry? Time will tell. Will Comair do what is right for themselves and the industry? Time will tell that too.

Whichever way this vote goes, it will be difficult on the Comair pilots and possibly the rest of the industry.

What's the number of that truck driving school?

C425Driver

 

[jetjck2]

So what is the latest poll showing---Yes or No?

 

[jarhead]

So what is the latest poll showing---Yes or No?

Read the post above yours. He just stated it is 57 to 43 percent to the yes side.

 

[JI Gone OH]

PS.. I dont hate you, I just feel very stronly about the vote that is on your Table and have very strong opinions about pilots selling out to management for growth..

I strongly believe that your management team told you things that are completely untrue about mother delta reducing your flying and your fleet... i also feel very strongly that you have a very secure place in the connection market and this is a way for Fred and Delta main to prove to the world that they can control yours and our contracts. I also feel very strongly, weather you have yes or no vote to your LOA, you will get the growth airplanes.

And again, I respect your feelings on the issue. I don't like being faced with the choice we are having to make, but I don't feel as though we are selling out. We are being forced to get our labor costs in line with our competion; it's as simple as that. Delta has shown their hand as to who gets growth: the cheapest. And as I have said in previous posts, I don't believe for a minute that we will get the airplanes if we say No. Fred can't reward us for telling him to pack sand. If I were on the outside looking in, I might feel as strongly as you did about this. At present, COMAIR has zero (0) growth airplanes on order and quite frankly that concerns me. Companies don't sit idle, they either grow or shrink. This is an opportunity for us to continue in what I would consider to be the right direction.

I appreciate your insight minus the insults. Nice weekend....