CMR on the move

[jetflyer]

I'm a middle of the pack F.O. at Comair and think we should pass this, but has anybody thought about what would happen if:

THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS SAY NO?


Most of the flight attendants I've talked to think this is a bad deal for them. So the pilots vote yes but the flight attendants vote NO. According to the memo the deal would be off.

My opinion is that Fred Buttrell needs to spend more time talking to the flight attendants, because I think the pilots are sold as far as the INFORMATION we've received so far. Granted if the details suck no one will go for it, but so far it looks pretty good.

Jet

 

[doh]

Okay Sleeve,

As long as we agree to "trust but verify" ( the Reagan doctrine lives!) I say keep negotiating too. Let's make sure the deal does the most good for us that is possible!

 

[Birddog]

I think there are way too many unanswered questions to even contemplate an intelligent decision on this. For example, what about retirement and 401k vesting and contribution? Is that frozen as well? What about the 30 month seat lock? To whom and how does that apply. If an FO upgrades during the pay freeze, what happens to thier pay rate? Does it stay as the frozen FO rate, or does it move to the Captain rate? If moves, does it go to your current year of service or the year you are frozen at? At what rate are the aircraft going to be delivered? I don't want the first one to arrive, trigger the pay freeze, then wait six months for the next aircraft. What guaratee do we have that this will be a one time deal and FB won't come back in 6 or 12 months looking for an extention? How do we know that we are not being set up for concessions to keep these shiny new airplanes?

Way too many questions and not enough answers. Give me the details. I am an FO, but without some answers, I will vote it down and encourage everyone I come across to do the same.

 

[chperplt]

Everyone needs to relax a bit... The union is meeting with Freddy boom boom on Tuesday and Wednesday. I'm sure we'll have a much clearer picture soon after.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

FWIW, I thought I read that the 10 CRJ200's would be ex-Indy Air planes, so I would gather those would/could come pretty quick, seeing as Indy is having a fire sale on planes. Didn't SkyWest get like 4 used for the price of 2 new or something like that?

 

[bvt1151]

FWIW, I thought I read that the 10 CRJ200's would be ex-Indy Air planes, so I would gather those would/could come pretty quick, seeing as Indy is having a fire sale on planes. Didn't SkyWest get like 4 used for the price of 2 new or something like that?

Fred said plan on 2 per month for 5 months.

 

[embraerdriver]

CMR on the move? roflmao!!

All the best !

 

[N2264J]

>>>Personally, I wouldn't want to sign on to a pay freeze until we all understand where the Delta furloughees fit into this deal.<<<

At the bottom of our list, if they choose to take the interview and if Comair management decides to hire them, unless we choose to modify our contract to allow otherwise (not even mentioned, much less in relation to this latest proposal)...Carpe Diem.

That's not quite how it worked out at PSA and the fact that it wasn't mentioned is no less cause for concern. It isn't growth if Comair pilots aren't flying the planes.

 

[bvt1151]

DAL's new agreement says "Preferential Hiring," not jets for jobs. That still equals growth for Comair pilots.

 

[N2264J]

DAL's new agreement says "Preferential Hiring," not jets for jobs. That still equals growth for Comair pilots.

Not necessarily. At PSA, the contract was unilaterally modified by the mainline union and management after the PSA pilots signed off on it.

In LOA 46, special employment rights for Delta furloughees is a precondition for 70 seat growth. That's Jets for Jobs. To date, ALPA has refused to release the details of their "preferential hiring" protocol eluded to in LOA 46. Like you, our MEC believes it to be "hired at the bottom of the list" but they haven't seen anything in writing yet.

Exercise extreme caution.

 

[FDJ2]

N2264J stated: Not necessarily. At PSA, the contract was unilaterally modified by the mainline union and management after the PSA pilots signed off on it.

The mainline pilots can not unilaterally modify another bargaining units collective bargaining agreement.

In LOA 46, special employment rights for Delta furloughees is a precondition for 70 seat growth. That's Jets for Jobs.

No, that's preferential hiring and it does not impact your CBA in the least.

To date, ALPA has refused to release the details of their "preferential hiring" protocol eluded to in LOA 46. Our MEC doesn't even know what it is.

Any J4J scenerio, such as the PSA agreement that you alluded to, would require the approval of the CMR pilots, otherwise it is just like BVT stated, a hiring to the bottom of the list protocol.

 

[surplus1]

The mainline pilots can not unilaterally modify another bargaining units collective bargaining agreement.

Don't act so surprised FDJ2, ALPA has been doing that sort of stuff to regionals for years. They negotiate and agreement for "mainline" which in turn forces changes in the regional agreement. It may not be legal and it sure isn't Kosher, but that never bothered ALPA before.

No, that's preferential hiring and it does not impact your CBA in the least.

You have a future at FOX News. It's Jets for Jobs no matter how you spin it. If you don't get the "preferential hiring" we don't get the jets. It walks, talks and looks like a duck; it's a duck.

 

[Rhoid]

It seems to be now how bad do you want new jets? It will boil down to the senior/lifer pilots (surplus1) vs. the junior pilots who still want to work for a major at some point and need the upgrade/PIC time.

 

[FDJ2]

[/color]

Don't act so surprised FDJ2, ALPA has been doing that sort of stuff to regionals for years.

Unilaterally changing PWA's of regional carriers? Sorry Surplus, but that dog don't hunt. Give me one Section, Paragraph or Sentence of the PSA PWA that was unilaterally changed by the mainline.



It's Jets for Jobs no matter how you spin it. If you don't get the "preferential hiring" we don't get the jets. It walks, talks and looks like a duck; it's a duck.

You're going to have to use a sharper pencil there Surplus. J4J requires a change in the PWA of a regional affiliate and allows mainline pilots to bid left seat positions at the regional affiliate, preferential hiring does not. CMR pilots, in particular the CMR MEC, did an about face about three months ago, before LOA 46 was agreed to, supporting the hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots, as opposed to their previous position of slamming the door in their face. So this reversal of the CMR pilots has nothing to do with the current DAL PWA. Nice try at spin though.

 

[doh]

Rhoid,

I'm probably a lifer. I'll still support this under the right circumstances, ie; the planes come in a timely fashion, it's real growth not replacement stuff, ya know, the details. I understand that the young guys need the pic to move on and the time will come sooner than you think! I want what's best for all of us. Let's just make sure it IS bestfor all of us.

 

[nimrod]

All i know is tht if it passes evey cmr pilot who has ever bad mouthed any contract carrier pilot is a two faced spineless piece of garbage. You guys wanted the best contract and you got it. Well as a result your stagnant. You guys are all so proud of your industry leading pay. What a f'ing joke. Jokers.

 

[jarhead]

All i know is tht if it passes evey cmr pilot who has ever bad mouthed any contract carrier pilot is a two faced spineless piece of garbage. You guys wanted the best contract and you got it. Well as a result your stagnant. You guys are all so proud of your industry leading pay. What a f'ing joke. Jokers.

Thanks for your very first post! You brought a lot to the table with that one. Whole lot of good ideas put forth there. Keep up the good work!

 

[chperplt]

All i know is tht if it passes evey cmr pilot who has ever bad mouthed any contract carrier pilot is a two faced spineless piece of garbage. You guys wanted the best contract and you got it. Well as a result your stagnant. You guys are all so proud of your industry leading pay. What a f'ing joke. Jokers.

Words of a moron!

 

[nimrod]

Well, If Delta hoped we were going to give anything back, GG fuked himself a few weeks ago. He told the world we (Comair) had the lowest overall cost of any DCI carrier.

If that's the case, he reaffirms that pilot cost is not pivotal and give backs are not required.

I'm sure cutbacks are needed, but those cutbacks can come in the way of smarter spending and executive level salaries.


Words to live by. I hope all of you guys think like this. I just can't stand the two-faced garbage.

 

[doh]

Wow,

Nimrod, you sure picked the right name, nimrod! I'm assuming you are CHQ. I'll tell you the same thing I told the other CHQ guy who trod this road. One finger salute to you! I have always defended you guys because you did not make the rules, you just live by them. I defended your contract because I know what CMR guys gave up when mgmt wanted to seperate the MCO op from CVG. You did a lot better getting scope and making other gains. Don't try to blow subnshine up my skirt now, cause that dog won't hunt.