Citation Shares: After 10 year $103,000?

[yosemite]

It just tears you NJ guys up that we a treated so well here, doesn't it?

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but no we really aren't all that torn up about it. Instead, we are sad for you. We can only watch the stuff that happens to you guys on a daily basis and wonder why you put up with it. You work for an "at will" employer. Sure, it appears your employer seems to be the best at "people" skills of all the fractionals, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that you guys are expected to work way more than we do for the same dollar amount. From the ramp side view, we see the things you guys do every day and can only wonder, why?

All I can do, in reality, is sadly shake my head at the unknowledgable statements made, and hope that some day things will get better, and you guys will see the light.

If you guys ever develop an interest in seeing what the other side looks like, just contact us. We are here for you... and every other fractional pilot. www.ibt1108.org

Fly safe my brother.

 

[Stinkbug]

Why cant your mgmt have a backbone and give you a raise say 3 years from now, beacause you deserve it as you and Bogart say?

Why can't yours? They won't...you have to negotiate a raise. Sorry if it sticks in your craw that our management saw what you negotiated and just handed a similar raise to us without so much as a whimper. I can understand why this might upset some...but don't act like CS management is evil simply because they're trying to keep up with you rather than take the lead on pay. They treat us well but they are running a business, after all.

 

[learflyer]

Treated well? you don't get reimbursed for tips, go to training on your days off, don't get OT for that.They make you work 10 days in a row (once every other year)with out extra compensation so everyone gets xmas off every other year?

What ev!

 

[Sparse]

Treated well? you don't get reimbursed for tips, go to training on your days off, don't get OT for that.They make you work 10 days in a row (once every other year)with out extra compensation so everyone gets xmas off every other year?

What ev!

Incorrect, that is the way it used to be, but you did get 10 days off after the 10 day tour. Now it is a series of 5 and 6 day tours to swap the schedule.

Why the argument anyway. CS has some things NJ doesn't have and NJ has some things CS dosen't have. The botom line is that where ever you are, if you don't like it, leave.

 

[Majik]

As a NJA pilot I am glad that CS and Flex pilots received their raises. Otherwise, NJA might have been at a disadvantage in labor costs. Also, it would be more difficult for NJA pilots to justify additional increases in about 4 years if our pay was already substantially greater than that of all other frac pilots. I'm hoping we pull a repeat and raise the bar for everyone again. It would be nice to have a little help though. Maybe next time we won't have to fight all of the naysayers within our industry like we did this last time.

Will the other fracs match our workrules and benefits? I sure hope so and I hope they do it soon but I won't hold my breath unless the pilots start to take an active role.

 

[Guitar rocker]

If this is the truth Rocker, then why are you and alot of your NJ cronies posting in a CS titled blog? I think you do really care about us and you realize that you chose to be employed NJ and just wonder how great your life would be if you worked here at CS. It just tears you NJ guys up that we a treated so well here, doesn't it?

Oh Bogart, this thread is about how much $$$ a CS cptn is making at year 10. It's not about how great CS guys have it at CS or what your mgmt relationship is....thats something that I dont care about at all. I have only commented on the fact that it is so coincidental that your mgmt has to give raises based on what our raises are. That Bogart, has nothing to do with how wonderful life is at CS and how great you are all treated over there. I am happy for you if you are treated well, but how "you are treated" is just the least of my concerns.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Why can't yours? They won't...you have to negotiate a raise. Sorry if it sticks in your craw that our management saw what you negotiated and just handed a similar raise to us without so much as a whimper. I can understand why this might upset some...but don't act like CS management is evil simply because they're trying to keep up with you rather than take the lead on pay. They treat us well but they are running a business, after all.

Stinky, I did say that your mgmt has no backbone, but not that they are evil. Where did that evil thing come from? I have only said that your mgmt cant and will not give you a raise without seeing what our mgmt is going to give our guys. It's as simple as that.

Last but not least, a common theme from you CS guys is that you always seem the need to confuse the issue of when NJA guys question you about your pay raise and how/when yah got it with how we are so jealous of how well you guys are treated there at CS. As I pointed out, this thread is about your pay scale at year 10, right? It's not about how well you guys are treated. Let me make something clear to you....I am happy for you guys that your mgmt suddenly and coincidentally came up with a great pay raise for you immediately after our pay raise but I dont care how you are treated. As in, not a care in the world.

Lets see here, your mgmt says that in another 5 yrs from your previous raise that you would get another raise, mmmm, coincidentally one that will mirror our raise no doubt. Now then, hypothetically speaking, lets say that our mgmt agreed to a new contract 2 yrs from our most recent raise, do you think that your mgmt would follow??? Or sit there and wait for 5 yrs to go by from your last raise? Ofcourse they are going to follow suit...where is their backbone?

 

[Ultra Grump]

It'll be interesting to see what CS managament says at the 5-year point when we are still in negotiations and our new payrates have not yet been set.

 

[Safetycheck]

... but I dont care how you are treated. As in, not a care in the world.

Rocker, I have read your musings in great detail. My conclusion is this: I think you are wearing your panties too tight!!!

Why do your types spend so much time analyzing another companies pilots lifestyles?

Your chronic need to complain is quite obvious. Now that you have little to whine and obsess over with your contract issues, you spend so much of your precious time whining and arguing about other pilots issues that have nothing to do with you! I do not understand this need to fuss and muss over these issues. You are a certifiable obsessive. This seems to be a common thread amongst you union types.

Do yourself a favor. Lesson the chafing by looseninig the undergarments. Its the only explanation my simple mind can come up with for your behavior.

 

[BengalsFan]

Holy Crap

Got an email today from a captain at CS... basically said that they have reviewd my application (which I knew I didn't have the mins for) and that they would like to start building a relationship, and that I should keep updating them with my time and experience....
Went on to say that their average FO has 6000 hours!
I hope that I shouldn't read into this and assume that I need to get in the 6000 hour relm to be considered as a new hire... should I?

 

[Stinkbug]

Stinky, I did say that your mgmt has no backbone, but not that they are evil. Where did that evil thing come from?

You're right...it was late and I didn't put much thought into what I wrote, I guess...but still, why attack CS management because they didn't just hand us a raise with no prompting? Yours didn't either...you had to wrestle with them over it for several years. As I've said before, I'm glad you did...I think we've all benefited from it. But the only reason this thread is still going on is because some Netjets blowhard had to interject some snide remarks that we've all heard a thousand times. It just gets old...every thread on the fractionals board doesn't have to be about Netjets and the almighty IBT

 

[temcgrew]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but no we really aren't all that torn up about it. Instead, we are sad for you. We can only watch the stuff that happens to you guys on a daily basis and wonder why you put up with it. You work for an "at will" employer. Sure, it appears your employer seems to be the best at "people" skills of all the fractionals, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that you guys are expected to work way more than we do for the same dollar amount. From the ramp side view, we see the things you guys do every day and can only wonder, why?


If you guys ever develop an interest in seeing what the other side looks like, just contact us. We are here for you... and every other fractional pilot. www.ibt1108.org

Fly safe my brother.

The union attitude combined with buisness jets is not a good combination. When your clients get tired of being flown around by grumpy union guys, they will get out and buy their own airplane, which will most likely be cheaper to operate. Company pilots tend to treat their people better than unionized crybabies flying "clients". Or maybe they will go to citation shares were they will be treated better. Remember it is a service industry, and the rich folks that can afford it, demand high quality service.

 

[yosemite]

The union attitude combined with buisness jets is not a good combination. When your clients get tired of being flown around by grumpy union guys, they will get out and buy their own airplane, which will most likely be cheaper to operate. Company pilots tend to treat their people better than unionized crybabies flying "clients". Or maybe they will go to citation shares were they will be treated better. Remember it is a service industry, and the rich folks that can afford it, demand high quality service.

That's funny... uneducated but funny.

First, our "OWNERS" were ready to leave in droves until the company signed the new contract with the pilots. When surveyed, before the contract, their satisfaction level with everything NJ except the pilots when down. However, they had a continued 98% or better satisfaction ratio with the pilots themselves. Since the contract, the survey data shows a 99% satisfaction ratio.

As for buying their own airplane, take a look at the numbers. If outright owning your own airplane were easier and cheaper then the fractional business would have NEVER gotten off the ground. The frac business is expensive, no one makes arguments about that. However, the numbers show that unless you fly less than 50 hours or more than 800 hours per year, fractional ownership is more cost effective.

Everyone flying corporate jets KNOWS it is a service industry. And yes, the rich folk can afford it.... so if the service provided by the fractional industry is so bad, why is it growing by a significant percentage greater than plain old corporate operators?

Like I said... you were funny, but your comments reflect a lack of education about the whole industry. They only thing they do show is rancor toward unionization.

 

[falcon20driver]

The union attitude combined with buisness jets is not a good combination. When your clients get tired of being flown around by grumpy union guys, they will get out and buy their own airplane, which will most likely be cheaper to operate. Company pilots tend to treat their people better than unionized crybabies flying "clients". Or maybe they will go to citation shares were they will be treated better. Remember it is a service industry, and the rich folks that can afford it, demand high quality service.

Funny as hell, without Netjets 1108 union citationshares pilots never would have got a raise last year.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Rocker, I have read your musings in great detail. My conclusion is this: I think you are wearing your panties too tight!!!

Why do your types spend so much time analyzing another companies pilots lifestyles?

Your chronic need to complain is quite obvious. Now that you have little to whine and obsess over with your contract issues, you spend so much of your precious time whining and arguing about other pilots issues that have nothing to do with you! I do not understand this need to fuss and muss over these issues. You are a certifiable obsessive. This seems to be a common thread amongst you union types.

Do yourself a favor. Lesson the chafing by looseninig the undergarments. Its the only explanation my simple mind can come up with for your behavior.

"Analyzing another companies pilots lifestyles?" What did you not understand when I said....I dont care how CS pilots are treated by their mgmt, where they go, when they go, how much they make etc??? Man, you gotta be pretty thick to think that I am complaining about CS lifestyels. I have only implied that the raise that CS will receive 5 yrs from this last one will mirror our next raise (imagine that). That is the one and only issue....not "issues" as you say.

Your ability to comprehend anything that people have put in writing seems to register at an early grade level and even that is pushing it. As a matter of fact, with just about all of your posts in the past, including this one, you seem to stray on tangents and totally respond to something other than that which is being addressed. There is a lot to be said for consistency.....and in your case, you just seem to miss the point everytime. Nothing to be upset over, you can still go to some vocational school and enhance you comprehension level.

I like the undergarment thing though. Why are you looking at what panties I am wearing? Safety Check, I dont know about you, but stop looking at a guys underwear. If I were you, I would suggest looking at a mini skirt, but then again, you gotta do what you gotta do.