Citation Shares: After 10 year $103,000?

[Some Dude]

That is not BBJ pay. For the record I hope all you do well in your careers and get everything you want.

 

[CastofThousands]

CastofThousands, I can guarantee, you are talking about a few unhappy pilots who wouldn't be happy anywhere. I work for the company and we are quite happy without the union. Not one person I've flown with wants a union on our property. You can take that to the bank. I'll tell you what, when I become a truck driver I'll call the 1108, so I don't have to sleep and shower at truck stops.

As for XLS orders, Textron is a business and you are the larger company for now. Simple math says you should have more aircraft orders. We are a very young fractional. I don't know too many fractionals that have grown more than 200% in the 3yrs I've been here. We must be doing something right. When hell freezes over and your beloved 1108 winds up on our property, it will be the end of the culture at CS which I grown to like. As an ex union pilot who's been so grossly misrepresented by cut throat unions, it would be time for me to grow a beard and start pounding nails for a living.

You're already there, you just don't know any better. Aviation has clear patterns, any astute individual would know it's not if, but when pilots will lose faith in their management. As you noted three years new and growing. Let's talk again in three years...

Enjoy,

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Why is it...On the message board there's so much loyalty from NJ pilots defending there company and drinking the "cool aid". Yet on the road, I have'nt met one NJ pilot that likes the company or job. Ironic...talk is definately cheap on the message board. GO CS !!!!!!!!!!

Oh you are one lying idiot. You make me laugh...

 

[gunfyter]

That is not BBJ pay. For the record I hope all you do well in your careers and get everything you want.

They really have no idea....

 

[FLYLOW22]

Why is it...On the message board there's so much loyalty from NJ pilots defending there company and drinking the "cool aid". Yet on the road, I have'nt met one NJ pilot that likes the company or job. Ironic...talk is definately cheap on the message board. GO CS !!!!!!!!!!

I think it's one of the best jobs I've had to date. I know we made it that way though.

Oops. I said that on this board and not to your face although I would if you asked me.

 

[FLYLOW22]

YouAs you noted three years new and growing. Let's talk again in three years...

Enjoy,

OH!!! We have a pin prick through the heat! Bullseye comment there!

As I recall, NJA... or should I say EJA had a VERY wonderful Golden Era. It officially ended here at NJA with lies, deceit and a POSTA.

We had no benefit of having our company match anyone elses superior pay. There was none.

It's okay though. I've never been one to take handouts... or take showers in truck stops.

:smash:
F.U.D.

 

[FLYLOW22]

We must be doing something right. When hell freezes over and your beloved 1108 winds up on our property, it will be the end of the culture at CS which I grown to like. As an ex union pilot who's been so grossly misrepresented by cut throat unions, it would be time for me to grow a beard and start pounding nails for a living.

When the "culture at CS"dies, it will be due to the natural evolution of labor/management relations.

Management can seek to work with the Union or fight the Union.

It will be more expensive to fight... always is.

Your last sentence illustrates the real underlying issue for you. I too have ben missrepresented by Unions. IBT 747, ALPA, IBT 284. 1108 is the 1st Union I've been a member of that truly gets it right.

Why the SUCCESS now? The people involved.

A Union is just a tool to be used, as is the RLA. If used by the wrong people or improperly the result is less than ideal.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Like I said to all the NJ pilots on this board, if your so happy and you have it all because of the local 1108, good!! We don't need you at CS please move on. I can't say this enough, your trying to fight a battle when there's no war. Your like those nagging sales calls I get from India. If and when I want your product I'll call you! For now please take CS off your calling list.

Now, what can we possibly talk about besides your union! How about the wide body jet Citation got on the drawing board. Does anyone have any information on what it's going to look like.

 

[dime line]

Yo Frac, just talk to an old RTA pilot about the way it use to be, and then, ask him about FLOPS. You will love the stories. CS is riding the wave now, enjoy it, because its coming. Wish our company took the road CS took reguarding pay.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Like I said to all the NJ pilots on this board, if your so happy and you have it all because of the local 1108, good!! We don't need you at CS please move on. I can't say this enough, your trying to fight a battle when there's no war. Your like those nagging sales calls I get from India. If and when I want your product I'll call you! For now please take CS off your calling list.

Now, what can we possibly talk about besides your union! How about the wide body jet Citation got on the drawing board. Does anyone have any information on what it's going to look like.

Well then vote NO for a union...stop yer whining and JUST SAY NO, if you are convinced that a union will be counter to your wishes. 1108 isn't begging for your membership...only offering. What battle ? What war ? WTF ? You are whining like a worried pilot...

 

[brokeflyer]

Sounds like a buncha whinny ass brats around here......im gonna go see if anything is different at the seasame street forum

 

[FLYLOW22]

Like I said to all the NJ pilots on this board, if your so happy and you have it all because of the local 1108, good!! We don't need you at CS please move on. I can't say this enough, your trying to fight a battle when there's no war. Your like those nagging sales calls I get from India. If and when I want your product I'll call you! For now please take CS off your calling list.

Now, what can we possibly talk about besides your union! How about the wide body jet Citation got on the drawing board. Does anyone have any information on what it's going to look like.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!

We may have our new FLOPS version of Family Guy here guys.

 

[Jetz]

Thanks for boosting the stock

I will be happy to spell it out for you. As I understand it a group of CS pilots mailed an entire seniority and address list to 1108. It's also my understanding that there is a reasonably large group of pilots trying to get an organizing drive going at CS. I was told this group of pilots approached 1108. So when you say give it up, and move on, I suggest you talk to your own pilots. I am not blinded by the fact there are pilots who don't want to unionize, you shouldn't be ignorant to the reality there are pilots who do want to unionize. Guess what? 50.01% prevail under the RLA as well as within the union. I will point out, to my knowledge, 1108 has never officially or unofficially indicated they had an interest in organizing CS. Simple reason, as long as CS management doesn't try to set low industry wages that whipsaw 1108 pilots, all is well.

My personal opinion here, NetJets pilots are in the drivers seat for ALL union to nonunion consolidation. Through a couple of industry reporters, supposedly "in the know," it has been confirmed that NetJets and Textron, I mean Cessna, have been mending some wound left by Cessna's old CEO - Russ - who started CS. One reporter said they "can't confirm or deny" a meeting with NetJets and Textron, I mean Cessna. I do know NetJets Cessna 680 and XLS orders jumped dramatically last month, and right now over 75% of NetJets new aircraft are Cessna (public information).

The 1108 leadership is well versed and studied on the issues. It would be safe to assume the Flight Options drive all came together after is was publicly confirmed by NetJets Chairman that there was no possibility of a merger with Flight Options. In addition, it's my understanding there is a private equities firm scouting Raytheon Aircraft Company (not Flight Options). Now, the little I know about the RLA, union to nonunion pilot group consolidation is very simple. Your wages are within 20% of the wages at NetJets, 83% on NetJets Class 1 wages to be more specific. If I were a betting man, which I am not, I would wager on securing Flight Options pilots a first contract is the primary interest at 1108. NJI as a secondary interest, with Flex & AvantAir (if there pilots pick it up a bit) tied for third. Each individual in the 1108 leadership carries specific assignments, so my guess is they are all first on someone's list.

So as long as you're happy, we're happy. Capisce?

Again, Best Regards,

Great news for Cessna. Keep those orders coming!

Now, why all of this, how do you say.... F.U.D. coming from you cast?

So as long as you're happy, we're happy.

What you meant is "We're not happy until you're not happy."

You and your buddies are wasting your breath. Why don't you do yourselves a favor, go over to the Avantair thread and posture over there. We're all stocked up on crazy over here.

 

[Guitar rocker]

. If and when I want your product I'll call you! For now please take CS off your calling list.

Now, what can we possibly talk about besides your union! How about the wide body jet Citation got on the drawing board. Does anyone have any information on what it's going to look like.

So, does that mean you'll be calling us in just about another 4 years???

Mmmmm, the new Citation 12. I have heard the rumors flying around about that. But the CJ 4 is another good one too that has just started in the rumor mill. Supposed to be a bigger tube, much like the 12 will be as well. Guess Cessna needs soemthing to compete with that 300 flying around out there.

 

[Safetycheck]

Rocker has loosened up his act.

ROFLMAO

Visions of Joan Jett or Pat Benatar when I read that. Guitar rocker with tight panties. LOLOL.

Guitar Rocker = Pat Benatar? Woo, thats way off base dude. Maybe Debbie Gibson or ahhh whats that girl who was on the Partridge family? Gotta keep on keep on keep on keep on dancin all through the night..... No, that was the brady bunch. Marcia marcia marcia!!!

Muahahahah.

I like the new rocker, all cheery talking about beer. Nice metamorphosis.

 

[NJA Capt]

I don't know too many fractionals that have grown more than 200% in the 3yrs I've been here.

Don't know any huh? FLOPS marketing department was using the same strategy 3-4 years ago. CS added approx 40 aircraft in your 3 year span while NJA has added approx 70. It is easy to claim you are "fastest growing" when you have a small fleet.

 

[FRACTRASH]

What's the Citation 12 going to look like? Maybe a big Sovereign.

Don't you NJ pilots think that, just maybe all the big brass at CS studied what worked and didn't work at the other fractionals, so we try not to make the same mistakes. You study history so you don't repeat it. CS management doesn't want a union on the property either. So, instead of butting heads with the pilot group, they are doing everything in there power to provide a good work environment. If I recall NJ pilots have been unhappy for a long time. Management there didn't want to budge to give your pilots anything, forcing you to take more drastic measures. Even though we are doing the same job. We are talking about to completely different cultures.

 

[Humphreybogart]

As I understand it a group of CS pilots mailed an entire seniority and address list to 1108. It's also my understanding that there is a reasonably large group of pilots trying to get an organizing drive going at CS. I was told this group of pilots approached 1108.

If this is true, which I really doubt, I hope our management finds out who these people are and fire their ass. Unions are made for people who are afraid to do their job. We will NEVER have a need for a union here at CS, because our management will do everything it takes for that not to happen. It's funny that you union goons find all these CS pilots that want a union. I'll bet you anything that I know alot more CS pilots than you do and they all agree that we don't want a union here. That is why they chose to work here, NO UNION. So I think it's time for you to get off of your soapbox. Preach your religion elsewhere.

 

[bluepost]

It is true. I was one of the NJA pilots providing YOUR management with our contract info and TA so they could adjust your pay to match our TA before it was even voted in. Notice how they ignored the 401k match, scheduled rest, hourly OT and the holiday pay. Me and my CS "partner" guessed this one early on.

Also, since nobody here knows who I am except for one or two NJ guys, I'm putting this out there not to brag...really...but just to show how much not having the above icing can cost you....I am a 7th year captain for pay so at this point my YTD base salary is $48,000 at the 6 month mark and my W2 shows $69,500....20k extra for 6 months NOT flying the BBJ and NOT on the reserve. If I don't fly a single extended day the rest of the year I would finish the year around 125K, if I do one a month like I plan...it will be 130ish. If I didn't extend AT ALL this whole year it would of been around 118K...still 20k in extras...or $1500 a month...that pays a lot of union dues AND beer...and NO medical cost.

I know putting the above info out is tacky, but I sense this quiet calm over at CS and the feeling that CS got the "same deal" as NJA and it is not accurate..and keeping the info out in the open and having guys push your pilot friendly managment is the only way things get better...(ie training on your week off). So I put this info out there with the hopes that with your flexible relationship with management you guys can as you have in the past help "raise the bar".

 

[gunfyter]

Don't you NJ pilots think that, just maybe all the big brass at CS studied what worked and didn't work at the other fractionals, so we try not to make the same mistakes. You study history so you don't repeat it. CS management doesn't want a union on the property either. So, instead of butting heads with the pilot group, they are doing everything in there power to provide a good work environment. If I recall NJ pilots have been unhappy for a long time. Management there didn't want to budge to give your pilots anything, forcing you to take more drastic measures. Even though we are doing the same job. We are talking about to completely different cultures.

Trash,

Actually I agree with a lot of the points you just made. As long as management does not make any of the mistakes others have made... I would not expect a big union move.

But I can remember like yesterday the FLOPS pilots singing songs of praise when we would see them on the road about the Sainted Ken Ricci.

Also remember... Its not just management that causes need for a union. UNFORTUNATELY...Certain pilots work the system and get Special Deals for themselves while the rest carry the pack. (Working for extra pay on their days off and spending their regular duty days at home is an example.) Our Union also puts a stop to these type situations..