If I scab, I would be taking a stand to keep our employer alive, so we can all have jobs. The junior guys especially would be devastated to lose their jobs if NJA cuts back because of increased overhead. I would be taking a stand against people who think it is a good thing to coerce colleagues who just want to go to work. I would be taking a stand against people who plan to harass me and my friends who would never harass them. And I would be in the right. You hooligans would be in the wrong. My friends are much nicer people than you thugs, and I would be proud to be with them if we all scab. BTW I don't think a strike will happen.
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Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints
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If I scab, I would be taking a stand to keep our employer alive, so we can all have jobs. The junior guys especially would be devastated to lose their jobs if NJA cuts back because of increased overhead. I would be taking a stand against people who think it is a good thing to coerce colleagues who just want to go to work. I would be taking a stand against people who plan to harass me and my friends who would never harass them. And I would be in the right. You hooligans would be in the wrong. My friends are much nicer people than you thugs, and I would be proud to be with them if we all scab. BTW I don't think a strike will happen.
I would never scab. I would never couch my words with "If I scab.." I am not a thug either. The Union is not full of thugs. The junior pilots would be well served to have a well paid job with good quality of life. There is nothing free in life. It must be earned. It is a small industry and the pilot you hose today, could be your boss tomorrow. This is a pilots market. There are plenty of crappy jobs available. Have a self worth. You have a skill that you should be professionally compensated for. Don't let fear and cowardice guide you in life.
AV8OR
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Wow. Whether one is pro Union or not, it's always interesting in a world where one is free to work for either a union or nonunion employer, that those that justify scabbing, do so while at the same time accepting the negotiated pay and benefits provided for them by the union.
Diesel
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Wow just wow. Defiantly saving this one.
I love the if I scab part but then summing it up that you don't think a strike will happen.
Like that makes your position any better.
You're siding on pay cuts, benefit cuts, qol cuts.
How about this whatever we get out of the new contract you don't get anything? You only get what you have now. How would that make you feel? Would you be happy with that?
You've never been right yet and you're certainly not right on this subject.
Well at least your standing up to be a scab. Good for you you've made a choice.
pilotyip
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G4 is not a scab, he has not crossed a picket line at struck work. He said "if". But since he is not posting 100% burn it down he must be beaten down in standard union thuggery until he joins the silent group of pilots that have worries about the union stance. Then there will be only one side to the story. He is expressing his views in a public forum, it is a great American tradition.
Ah Yip to the rescue... Bottom feeding at its finest...
G4 is actively working against the pilot group and the group of pilots willing to stand up for a fair share of the profit pie.
I agree that he has a right to say his piece.
I am sure there were those who supported Hitler during the book burnings that took place.
G4 is actively working against the pilot group and the group of pilots willing to stand up for a fair share of the profit pie.
I agree that he has a right to say his piece.
I am sure there were those who supported Hitler during the book burnings that took place.
pilotyip
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Right and G4 must be attacked continuously until he is silent like many of cohorts who do not have his courage to speak up. Kinda like the Gestopo (sp?) did to people who thought Hitler was a Nut Case
That is why you and I wore the uniform to ensure freedom of speech, you should be proud of that.BTW I am an extremely happy bottom feeder, something I don't see much of here
Diesel
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Right and G4 must be attacked continuously until he is silent like many of cohorts who do not have his courage to speak up. Kinda like the Gestopo (sp?) did to people who thought Hitler was a Nut Case
BTW I am an extremely happy bottom feeder, something I don't see much of here
Happy to talk about scabbing and being one?
More than welcome to become one, he just doesn't like the consequences of being one.
Right and G4 must be attacked continuously until he is silent like many of cohorts who do not have his courage to speak up. Kinda like the Gestopo (sp?) did to people who thought Hitler was a Nut Case
BTW I am an extremely happy bottom feeder, something I don't see much of here
Touch"e
realityman
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Sigh.
Congrats on making the dumbest post on FI. Ever.
I think I understand your stance better now. It's very apparent that you truly don't understand what's going on with these negotiations, how they work, what the likely outcome will be if the company wins, or even what you'd really be supporting by becoming a scab.
Look, forget union thuggery. Forget being coerced into doing anything. In fact, forget everything union for just a moment here.
What are we left with? The company's position. And what is their position? More work, less money, partial payment towards healthcare premiums AND giving them full control to adjust that in the future however they want, less vacation, less contribution to our 401K's and so on and so forth. Make no mistake, they have not moved a single inch off this position since negotiations have started!
If you, or anyone else scabs (should a strike happen), guess what? The stand you are taking has NOTHNG to do with "saving jobs for the junior folks" or any other such martyr-like claptrap no matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise. If you scab you are SUPOORTING the company's position. You are working TOWARDS the company's goals. You'd actually be helping the company cut our pay and benefits (yes, that would include YOU!)! Seriously, do you not see that?!
Either the company is going to win this, or we will. There really is no middle ground here. If we win it means a much better CBA. If the company wins things get much worse. Why on earth would you support ANYTHING that looks to take away from us?! Do you honestly feel you're overcompensated for what you do? If so, then scab away. Otherwise, nothing good will come from being a scab.
Think about it. If the company wins you will have helped drag down the bar for everyone. Probably helped create a company where even you won't want to stay. And if we win, you may get all the benefits of a greatly improved CBA, but most of your coworkers are going to make your time here completely miserable (you can complain about this sort of union "thuggery" all you like, but the one thing you can never claim is that you had no idea of the consequences of being a scab).
So I ask you, what is the upside of being a scab? Nothing good will come of it. If you think a handful of scabs is what will "save" the company in the event of a strike, you really are deluding yourself.
Diesel
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fischman
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A BRK company going under?!? BWAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
ghostrider64
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Wow, just wow....
With this mentality I'd bet you would never write up a mechanical irregularity that might affect a passenger leg, BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING SOLELY SAVE NETJETS
You're also going to EXTEND with impunity because your family and netjets depend SOLELY on you to save both your family and netjets.
You're going to need "your nice friends" because it's going to be damned lonely when you are paired with MEMBERS IN GOOD STANDING WHO WOULD NEVER CROSS A PICKET. Yep, just go to united and continental scabs and ask them what a great choice they made.....
Maybe you should watch Pedro's interview again when Liz mentions she can't believe you'll put up with the BS much longer....apparently she knows more about negotiations than you SOLELY will....ever.
So your saying that I'm a thug! You don't know most people on this board, how are you not being the "Thug" by calling others Thugs. Your looking hypocritical to me
Thank you for articulating in a concise, lucid manner what the rest of us were thinking about this thread.
pilotyip
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The beatings will continue until G4 is silent, there must be no dissenting voices. If you called him names because of his stance, you fit into the category. He has as much right to offend and you do to be offended.
Diesel
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He has the right to cross the picket line.
I have the right to make his life miserable afterwards.
What you don't get because you keep posting here and not in the Majors is that a lot of people have pulled GIV aside and tried to talk sense into him.
He knows better than everyone else though. With no experience and using the movie Hoffa as his reference for union activities.
Except he enjoys the protections and benefits that the union gives him.
Here is my definition of a Thug in this context. Anyone who would coerce anybody else to do something is a Thug. Anyone who plans to mistreat anybody for the rest of his career for not doing what you want, is a Thug. If you do NOT intend to do these things, you are not a Thug, and thanks for that. Diesel is a Thug, and proud of it, and shame on him. I think meanness and coercion are not things to be proud of. If I joined the strike because I believed it was the right thing to do, and you did not, I would not mistreat you for a second, nor coerce you to join us on the picket line. It is perfectly ok to disagree with me about the efficacy of unions, but to act on that belief with bad behavior is thuggish.
If the final contract offer we get is a bad deal, I will be joining y'all on the picket line. It will feel strange, and my Dad would be shocked, but there you have it. I think the pilot shortage will help our negotiating team get us a good deal, so I doubt a strike will be necessary.
Diesel
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Typical.
All I see is a lot of I's in there.
But you can bet if you get called in for a PRB you'll be using the term WE pretty damn quick.
Thug whatever makes you sleep better at night for screwing your fellow pilots.
ghostrider64
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What's sad about G4 is he can't see how the company is coercing him and manipulating him, by him buying into the "you gotta help the team out boys" cry from management.
He's a simpleton, nothing more. We've all seen them and their pathetic supporting roles in life. Sad characters that think their work ethic is superior,never to be educated or swayed, then in the end they are handed a pile of crap to eat. It'll be fun watching him 10-12 months from now when the reality of his pathetic existence comes to fruition.
He reminds me of Ash in Alien....
At the beginning of the film, Ash is depicted as quiet and logical, greatly adherent to company regulations. However, he breaks quarantine protocol (disobeying Ripley, the ship's ranking officer, in the process) and allows the infected Kane aboard the mining ship, seemingly out of compassion, and is later seen marvelling at the creature attached to him.
He's a simpleton, nothing more. We've all seen them and their pathetic supporting roles in life. Sad characters that think their work ethic is superior,never to be educated or swayed, then in the end they are handed a pile of crap to eat. It'll be fun watching him 10-12 months from now when the reality of his pathetic existence comes to fruition.
He reminds me of Ash in Alien....
At the beginning of the film, Ash is depicted as quiet and logical, greatly adherent to company regulations. However, he breaks quarantine protocol (disobeying Ripley, the ship's ranking officer, in the process) and allows the infected Kane aboard the mining ship, seemingly out of compassion, and is later seen marvelling at the creature attached to him.
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gunfyter
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He sees the union thugs but not the management thugs and intimidation....
Just wish he would read A Union Buster confesses...
Union thuggery can hold no candle to management thuggery and intimidation of workers
I think I will read that book.
I agree with some of the things unions, especially in house unions, bring to the mix. I abhore the coercion of fellow members that accompanies the good stuff.
pilotyip
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You are not allowed to do that, you must be beat into silence like most of the other pilots at NJ who share your views. It is not about issues, it is personal it is about you because you dare to speak out. The name calling, insults and slamming will continue until you are silenced.
realityman
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Not sure why you're so hung up about "coercion".
There is no coercion going on. All I see are attempts to educate. We are not the unions of old. No one is going to key your car or TP your front yard or break your kneecaps to get you to get in line.
Are you referring to how scabs are treated? Sorry, that's not coercion. That's called "consequences". Yes, there is a big difference.
Coercion involves actions that try to force you to take or participate in certain actions. In other words, if you refuse to picket, or even choose to become a scab, coercion would involve something like "You will join in or we'll break your legs/ steal your paycheck/release the secret video of you with that farmer's cow.".
Consequences happen after the fact. When all is settled and done with the strike, what happens to you then are the consequences. There is no coercion as the act which we wanted you to join with is over.
Having your license suspended after violating the FAR's is not coercion. It's consequences. No one will try to stop you from violating the FAR's. It's your choice. But there are consequences for it. You can say hateful things like, "All African-Americans should be hung." (well, I hope someone would coerce you into not making that public statement) but the likely backlash you would receive from most folks would be the consequences, not coercion.
You can cross a picket line and scab, but your treatment after the strike is over is not coercion, it's consequences. If you can't see the difference, then there's no hope for you.
You just don't like the consequences, so like a child you try to deny they are "consequences", play the victim and say it's "coercion".
We are trying to educate you about the consequences of making a bad choice. You don't like those consequences. Fine. You don't have to. They are what they are. Even Diesel, who can be a bit rough with you, is only trying to tell you what the results will be of crossing a picket line. Rather than say, "Okay, I now understand the consequences and still freely choose to scab even knowing the consequences much as I don't like them. I accept the results of my actions and stand by them." you prefer to say, "You're just trying to bully or coerce me into doing what the union wants.". It's a stance that essentially takes no personal responsibility and is in complete denial of the consequences.
By telling you how scabs are treated is not coercion anymore than telling you what the likely results will be of running a red light at a busy intersection.
We're trying to PROTECT you from bad consequences (yes, and hopefully garner your full support for a better contract as it will take the vast majority of us working together to accomplish it) and you call it being "thugs".
Hopefully, even if you don't agree with a strike and won't actively picket with us, you'll at least not cross the picket line. Time will tell.
Is it coercion to try and stop a friend from cheating on his or her significant other? Is it coercion to suggest a certain purchase may be over the top? Both "legal" activities, but both wrong. Crossing a picket line is just wrong. Calling someone a thug who is trying to convince you of what many consider obvious is just one more example of someone trying to justify their behavior.
I give up. Enjoy your message board.
Diesel
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But you've made such great arguments to support the reason why you should be able to SCAB and still be treated like a normal human being after.....
Were you involved on the townhall meeting yesterday? Lots of good info and all you had to do was dial a phone number.
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