Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[realityman]

I think the marketplace in general and the pilot shortage in particular will force them to stop being stupid eventually, maybe very soon. Not getting new pilots will focus their minds wonderfully.

I truly hope you're right.

But nothing I've seen coming down from the top shows any indication that will happen.

It's only my opinion, but given serious pilot attrition where they can't hire fast enough to keep up will not result in a better contract, but rather a lowering of the standards required to work here. They would much rather try everything they can to bring in cheap, first year co-pilots than pay more money to everyone already here.

Pilot attrition combined with not enough new hires will turn up the heat on them, but it isn't going to be the key that gets us a new contract.

 

[gunfyter]

I never took fire (excluding friendly fire in training exercise screwup).

The simple equation I think is this.

NJ employs ATPs with certain level of experience and this happens to be exactly the same as the Major Airlines and LCCs.

I don't see any reason the Walmart Shoppers riding on a LCC should be paying a higher rate to their pilots than the folks who attended the Berkshire Convention pay.

 

[NJAowner]

Realityman -- the pumpkin work does qualify as heroic and your daughter will always remember it. I am usually pretty good at finding the sarcasm in the posts but yours did not appear sarcastic. I apologize for my comment.

GF -- we have had many economic theory discussions. Frankly, there are many professions where people doing the same work with the same skill get paid differently. An eye surgeon in Des Moines gets paid less for the same procedure as the one in NYC (and it is not just the cost of living difference). Lawyers in large firms make more than similarly qualified and experience lawyers in smaller firms (even in the same city). It is fair?? But it is reality.

Before everyone flames me, you know I think the NJA pilots should be paid more. I just think many of the arguments being used to justify higher wages are not sound or convincing (we should be paid more because (1) NJ makes lots of $$, (2) BH and WB have lots of $$ and won't miss it, (3) owners can afford to pay more, (4) other guys get paid more so we should too). I am not saying these are the only arguments the pilots are putting forward -- but they are the leading and most popular ones.

Don't try to be like the others and get paid like some of them. DIFFERENTIATE the NJ pilots (more than just we work hard or have experience), convince management (ok that may be difficult as we have problems with them too) and NJ share owners that you are close to being IRREPLACEABLE and even different from the ego-case flying the Delta 737, and that it is this core group which can UNIQUELY deliver this service to the company and therefore, the share owners, and that the share owners DEMAND pilots of your caliber.

 

[Mooneymite]

Don't try to be like the others and get paid like some of them. DIFFERENTIATE the NJ pilots (more than just we work hard or have experience), convince management (ok that may be difficult as we have problems with them too) and NJ share owners that you are close to being IRREPLACEABLE and even different from the ego-case flying the Delta 737, and that it is this core group which can UNIQUELY deliver this service to the company and therefore, the share owners, and that the share owners DEMAND pilots of your caliber.

While I generally agree with your post, I do not think that there is a qualitative difference between most pilot groups. The vast majority of pilots, regardless of company, do a very good job of flying airplanes.

What differentiates NetJets pilots from other pilots is the fact that we:

1. Operate in a "hostile environment". I.E. 5500 airports in conus that airlines don't serve and, in many cases, provide minimal support/infrastructure.

2. Fly long and hard. Our seven day trips are MUCH harder/tiring/trying than airline trips. (30 years experience in the airline speaking here.)

3. Remain flexible and can quickly respond to an ever-changing game plan.

4. Provide personalized service taylored to each individual owner.

The question is: "What are these differences worth?"

The answer will be negotiated.

 

[Diesel]

I am in agreement with what owners know and say. I just continue to point out that I think it is a faulty assumption to assume that the owners will side against a mangement in any dispute/strike. I would not take that for granted -- the enemy of my enemy is NOT always your friend.

Owners are more worried about their asset than our issues with the company.

When owners start to care is if our issues with the company affect their asset.

That's when they care.

 

[Diesel]

Not enough pilots available for that to happen, hopefully.

G3dude you're back. How was Omaha? Did you have a good time walking with our fellow brothers and sisters?

 

[Diesel]

That is great news, if true. How do you know this?

Because I stay involved and updated.

I don't just hope for better things to come.

 

[Diesel]

While I generally agree with your post, I do not think that there is a qualitative difference between most pilot groups. The vast majority of pilots, regardless of company, do a very good job of flying airplanes.

What differentiates NetJets pilots from other pilots is the fact that we:

1. Operate in a "hostile environment". I.E. 5500 airports in conus that airlines don't serve and, in many cases, provide minimal support/infrastructure.

2. Fly long and hard. Our seven day trips are MUCH harder/tiring/trying than airline trips. (30 years experience in the airline speaking here.)

3. Remain flexible and can quickly respond to an ever-changing game plan.

4. Provide personalized service taylored to each individual owner.

The question is: "What are these differences worth?"

The answer will be negotiated.

5. We are the baggage handler, dispatcher, fueler, car rental getter, baggage off loader, cleaner, fa, and pilot

 

[fischman]

We are heroic.

Heroic? Hell yes!

Realityman -- I hate to burst your bubble and have you return to reality .. but that is not heroic. Getting shot at while you fly like Semore Butts, Gunfyter and countless others on here is heoric -- and thank you guys. In flying passenger jets you are just doing a darn great job which I truly appreciate -- but you are not a hero to me.

Not to belittle the service of our vets, which is awesome, respectfully, I have to disagree with you. My passengers who experiences a rapid decompression at 39,000 were glad to be alive when I safely got them on the ground. Also, when the thrust reverser deployed at 24,000 and 300 knots, I think I got a few "atta boy". On a day to day basis are we heroic? No! But we are when you need us to be. Was Sully heroic when he landed 1549 on the Hudson? (or is it "in" the Hudson? I don't know.) Many think so.

One doesn't need to be shot at to be heroic.

Before everyone flames me, you know I think the NJA pilots should be paid more. I just think many of the arguments being used to justify higher wages are not sound or convincing (we should be paid more because (1) NJ makes lots of $$, (2) BH and WB have lots of $$ and won't miss it, (3) owners can afford to pay more, (4) other guys get paid more so we should too). I am not saying these are the only arguments the pilots are putting forward -- but they are the leading and most popular ones.

Don't try to be like the others and get paid like some of them. DIFFERENTIATE the NJ pilots (more than just we work hard or have experience), convince management (ok that may be difficult as we have problems with them too) and NJ share owners that you are close to being IRREPLACEABLE and even different from the ego-case flying the Delta 737, and that it is this core group which can UNIQUELY deliver this service to the company and therefore, the share owners, and that the share owners DEMAND pilots of your caliber.

Here's where NJA pilots are different. I'm a NJA pilot. I am awesome. No , one else has me. Mind BLOWN...

THAT just happened...

At the risk of being an egomaniac :erm:, there is a HUGE difference between being a pilot, and being a NetJets pilot. Not every pilot can do what we do so well.

 

[jonjuan]

I never took fire (excluding friendly fire in training exercise screwup).

The simple equation I think is this.

NJ employs ATPs with certain level of experience and this happens to be exactly the same as the Major Airlines and LCCs.

I don't see any reason the Walmart Shoppers riding on a LCC should be paying a higher rate to their pilots than the folks who attended the Berkshire Convention pay.

Sure, but most Major Airlines require a college degree.

 

[pilotyip]

Sure, but most Major Airlines require a college degree.

Very true, but it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Anything below the top 6 or 7 airlines, the lack of a degree is not a show stopper.

 

[gunfyter]

Do many pilots not have a college degree?

 

[T-1GUY]

oh Jeeese, here we go again

 

[Diesel]

Where is that dead horse?

 

[pilotyip]

oh Jeeese, here we go again

Hey, not my fault I did not brign up the college degree thing, but if someone posts and wants info I am more than glad to help my fellow pilots. This is what it is all about pilots helping pilots.