Brian Wilson Endorses The ASA Coalition!

[ASADriver]

Just because we're not meeting doesn't mean nothing's happening. Gotta love the Generation X mantra of Instant Gratification!

You sure have an interesting definition of "instant".

 

[ASADriver]

Have you seen this mandate? I haven't and neither has any other member of the rank and file. I wonder why?

Good point. We are told that these things are what the majority wants, but we aren't shown the actual polling to back up those statements. How do we know that this is what the majority wants. I guess this election will determine if this is really what the majority wants.

 

[Speedtape]

Have you seen this mandate? I haven't and neither has any other member of the rank and file. I wonder why?

LJ was instrumental in working on our current contract. This contract was, according to many of those here at the DOS, industry leading at that tx. If the only reason you have for not voting for LJ is b/c of what SH may or may not have said in a R/T class then you need to start thinking for yourself.

Wrong--Most of the contract was done before L.J. came into her position. The pilot group delivered that contract. With the envioronment that the pilot group created at the end game, Howdy Doody could have done a better job and he would not have compromised pay rates for all pilots, for the "pay for training bonus" that benefitted a special interest group (including J.B.) After all, good pay rates for all pilots are "inclusive," and payrates for J.B.'s select group were "EXCLUSIVE." That's the Scope J.B. be talk'n bout!

She better be ready for the truth to come out about her ALPA experience, because I heard that some of the members of that MEC and the ASA negotiator that she sent out of the room to pull her tricks, are going to hold her accountable, should she get the nomination!

 

[Speedtape]

Good point. We are told that these things are what the majority wants, but we aren't shown the actual polling to back up those statements. How do we know that this is what the majority wants. I guess this election will determine if this is really what the majority wants.

Chuckles,

Weren't you on the MEC 4 years ago? I bet you know what the Data says! Without a doubt, you have shared it with your S.H.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

She better be ready for the truth to come out about her ALPA experience, because I heard that some of the members of that MEC and the ASA negotiator that she sent out of the room to pull her tricks, are going to hold her accountable, should she get the nomination!

Good, I am all for accountability for elected officers both present and future. By the way have you seen the polling data that the MEC is vigorously fighting for? What are they doing to get this done? They say no more negotiating w/o the mediator present. The mediator has stated no more dates until the two sides comes closer together on the proposals. Correct me if I am wrong but how are the two sides suppose to get the gap reduced w/o talking with each other?

Sorry, DN says a Proffer of Arbitration from the NMB is on the way...
Good luck Dave

 

[FightingIrish]

Good, I am all for accountability for elected officers both present and future. By the way have you seen the polling data that the MEC is vigorously fighting for? What are they doing to get this done? They say no more negotiating w/o the mediator present. The mediator has stated no more dates until the two sides comes closer together on the proposals. Correct me if I am wrong but how are the two sides suppose to get the gap reduced w/o talking with each other?

Sorry, DN says a Proffer of Arbitration from the NMB is on the way...
Good luck Dave

Actually at a recent recurrent class, Dave admitted that the NMB will probably turn down ALPA's request for a profer. When asked what ALPA's next step will be if the NMB turns down the request, he answered "we don't know". Instills confidence doesn't it.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well, it seems we've found three very vocal opponents of this MEC. If what they're saying is true that the majority is against the MEC, you'd think there would be HUNDREDS on here criticizing! But there are not... just the usual handful of malcontents.

Preach on guys. I'm sure you represent the other 1697 or so. Really. I'm sure you'll sway the vote by shouting from your soapbox here. But time is running out. Better turn up the anti-alpa rhetoric quick.

Funny how you don't see this negativity from these three on the ALPA message board. I wonder why? Maybe they're afraid to stand behind their insults? Maybe they're not even ASA pilots? Maybe they're managers with restricted access? Maybe they work for Skywest?

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

I'm sure that statement gave the room a good warm and fuzzy to know that our trusted leader has no plan B. They had to know that this move was a hail mary when they made the request.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I'm sure that statement gave the room a good warm and fuzzy to know that our trusted leader has no plan B. They had to know that this move was a hail mary when they made the request.

I'm betting nobody but our Golden Domed friend even zeroed in on that remark (if it was even made, which I doubt). But I'm sure he'll respond that EVERYONE IN THE CLASS was aghast! See, the truth is whatever you believe it is, and when you hate your leaders that much, it poisons your mind to objectivity.

 

[FightingIrish]

Well, it seems we've found three very vocal opponents of this MEC. If what they're saying is true that the majority is against the MEC, you'd think there would be HUNDREDS on here criticizing! But there are not... just the usual handful of malcontents.

Preach on guys. I'm sure you represent the other 1697 or so. Really. I'm sure you'll sway the vote by shouting from your soapbox here. But time is running out. Better turn up the anti-alpa rhetoric quick.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm.

We aren't anti-alpa. We want ALPA to do things differently and we want ALPA to stop the transfer of aircraft. Just because you criticize the way some things are done in ALPA, doesn't mean you are anti-alpa.

The current MEC is stepping out. Only Faruzzi is running again, and many don't want him to continue. If the MEC is going to be replaced, many of us are ready for a different approach to these negotiations.

 

[FightingIrish]

I'm betting nobody but our Golden Domed friend even zeroed in on that remark (if it was even made, which I doubt). But I'm sure he'll respond that EVERYONE IN THE CLASS was aghast! See, the truth is whatever you believe it is, and when you hate your leaders that much, it poisons your mind to objectivity.

I actually like Dave. I have worked with him in the past and he is very dedicated to what he does. I don't "hate" him or any other ALPA person. Why is it if you disagree with someone, you think they "hate" them. You have been very vocal of some of our pilots yourself. Do you "hate" them?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Johnny, it's all about accountability of which the present MEC has very little. I am not anti-ALPA/union yet I do have serious doubts about our present local leadership and the "Stay the Course" mentality. Say what you want about LJ and the coalition but it is tx for change within the local 112. When SKW Inc bought ASA they never changed tactics to adabt to our new negotiating environment which was a serious mistake. To this date they have still refused have refused to make any changes. This will drag on for another 4 years w/o change.

 

[John Pennekamp]

We aren't anti-alpa. We want ALPA to do things differently and we want ALPA to stop the transfer of aircraft. Just because you criticize the way some things are done in ALPA, doesn't mean you are anti-alpa.

The current MEC is stepping out. Only Faruzzi is running again, and many don't want him to continue. If the MEC is going to be replaced, many of us are ready for a different approach to these negotiations.

First off, it seems Newie is the MEC chairman, Farruzi and Utley are running, and Mohr is going to LAX. How are they all stepping down?

Second, You keep saying "many of us". "Many people". Where are they? I only see three of you. You'll need at least 50%+1 pilots to make it happen. That's, oh, let's see... ABOUT 800 PILOTS! I see three or so.

quit speaking for the majority, when you're clearly in the minority!

Oh, and another thought... what makes you think ALPA can stop the asset transfers? That's up to Jerry, and I'll bet my 15 year -700 paycheck against yours that they continue even if we get the deal Lynn is proposing.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Johnny, it's all about accountability of which the present MEC has very little. I am not anti-ALPA/union yet I do have serious doubts about our present local leadership and the "Stay the Course" mentality. Say what you want about LJ and the coalition but it is tx for change within the local 112. When SKW Inc bought ASA they never changed tactics to adabt to our new negotiating environment which was a serious mistake. To this date they have still refused have refused to make any changes. This will drag on for another 4 years w/o change.

All I can say is that y'all are starting to sound very desperate. You just keep chanting the same mantra that change is good.

If you three arent the alter egos of the Jackson 5 themselves, I'll be surprised.

See y'all in the morning.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

JP, do you believe that the NMB will hand down a proffer of arbitration? Do you have confidence in the this "Stay the Course" mentality that our present MEC has put in place? Do you believe that we can get the gap between proposals closer together if we don't actually sit at the table and communicate? If you answered no to any of these questions then, no matter how great DN and the MEC are as people, it may be tx for a change.

 

[FightingIrish]

JP, do you believe that the NMB will hand down a proffer of arbitration? Do you have confidence in the this "Stay the Course" mentality that our present MEC has put in place? Do you believe that we can get the gap between proposals closer together if we don't actually sit at the table and communicate? If you answered no to any of these questions then, no matter how great DN and the MEC are as people, it may be tx for a change.

BINGO! The gap is too far and the NMB isn't going to give us a release or even bring us back together until the gap is closed. Digging in our heels now will simply result in us remaining parked while our airplanes are sent to Skywest. Time for a change.

 

[701EV]

Actually at a recent recurrent class, Dave admitted that the NMB will probably turn down ALPA's request for a profer. When asked what ALPA's next step will be if the NMB turns down the request, he answered "we don't know". Instills confidence doesn't it.

Irish,

I have a very hard time beliveing that Dave stated " I don't know". I just don't see Dave saying that.

701EV

 

[Bizjet]

BINGO! The gap is too far and the NMB isn't going to give us a release or even bring us back together until the gap is closed. Digging in our heels now will simply result in us remaining parked while our airplanes are sent to Skywest. Time for a change.

You and your fellow hand puppets want change then vote for it. And if your change candidates don't win then how about getting on board with the majority and stop all your whining.

 

[Bizjet]

Good point. We are told that these things are what the majority wants, but we aren't shown the actual polling to back up those statements. How do we know that this is what the majority wants. I guess this election will determine if this is really what the majority wants.

Yes it will and when your change doesn't happen you will still be on this board whining about why you want your way and how evil the MEC is. If you are calling the MEC liars about the polling results why don't you come to the next LEC meeting and say it there. You are truly a worm.

 

[Bizjet]

Actually at a recent recurrent class, Dave admitted that the NMB will probably turn down ALPA's request for a profer. When asked what ALPA's next step will be if the NMB turns down the request, he answered "we don't know". Instills confidence doesn't it.

Were you at that recurrent class? Did you hear him say it or are you just passing gas through your mouth?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

If you answered no to any of these questions then, no matter how great DN and the MEC are as people, it may be tx for a change.

You know, I'm just too tired to get involved in this debate. The majority will speak, and I still have faith in the majority. If the majority proves me wrong and installs Johnny's coalition, I will have lost a lot of faith in this pilot group. I would wager that those of you pushing for blind change (even Brian Wilson's letter basically said, "What are they going to do? I dunno, but we should give them the chance to show us.") have never spent a day volunteering for an ALPA committee or educating themselves on the true labor-management dynamic that exists at this company. Pushing for a change without really knowing what that change hopes to bring is a truly desperate measure and it shows panic. Furthermore, in my opinion, it shows your lack of backbone.

Anyway... like I said, I'm too tired to get involved in this debate. Do what you want. I've done my campaigning. ALPA is already on the ropes on a national level. Voting in Lynn and company will mark the end of any real representation you have at this company. Think SAPA. If you're comfortable with your reps answering to management's whim, then these people are your guys. If not, research the candidates and make a choice for strong representation. If anyone cares, PM me and I'll be happy to tell you who I nominated and why.

But back to the original reason I posted a response.... ATLCRJDRIVER..... is it really that hard to type the word "time"? The "tx" is just annoying.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Here is something for the "majority" to think about, IF this proffer is handed down from the NMB. Do you believe the CNC will allow the rank and file to review it and vote on if WE want to approve or reject it or will they say based on the mandates we will make the decision for you?

You say we should should all be quiet and stay the course, which course do you believe they will take?

 

[sweptback]

Here is something for the "majority" to think about, IF this proffer is handed down from the NMB. Do you believe the CNC will allow the rank and file to review it and vote on if WE want to approve or reject it or will they say based on the mandates we will make the decision for you?

You say we should should all be quiet and stay the course, which course do you believe they will take?

Sorry, that's not how it's done. You don't get to vote on whether or not you accept a proffer. Ask a member of Congress if you get to vote on every bill that comes before them...

I think some of you guys are thinking that a proffer equals a strike. That could not be farther from the truth. What a proffer gives us is leverage in the form of time pressure. Maybe I'm optimistic, but I think if we were pushed into a 30-day cooling off period we would have an acceptable TA at the 29-day mark. SkyWest may be happy to let us strike, but Delta would put their foot down and say settle this thing.

 

[John Pennekamp]

JP, do you believe that the NMB will hand down a proffer of arbitration? Do you have confidence in the this "Stay the Course" mentality that our present MEC has put in place? Do you believe that we can get the gap between proposals closer together if we don't actually sit at the table and communicate? If you answered no to any of these questions then, no matter how great DN and the MEC are as people, it may be tx for a change.

I do not think they will proffer us at this time, but I believe they'll send us back to the table with a git 'er dun mandate.

The gap can be narrowed without sitting at the table. All the MEC has to do is drop some of their more outlandish demands, and notify the mediator that they're ready to talk. I think the MEC is there, and waiting for the NMB decision so as to avoid negotiating against themselves.

And yes, I think we should "stay the course" (I can say that now that Bush has dropped it). It's too late in the game to fire the whole army, including the generals, train new ones, then resume the war with a bunch of FNGs!

That would be a very foolish move.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Here is something for the "majority" to think about, IF this proffer is handed down from the NMB. Do you believe the CNC will allow the rank and file to review it and vote on if WE want to approve or reject it or will they say based on the mandates we will make the decision for you?

You say we should should all be quiet and stay the course, which course do you believe they will take?

You already did get to vote. The MAJORITY voted 92.7% to strike. Sorry your team lost.

 

[FightingIrish]

I do not think they will proffer us at this time, but I believe they'll send us back to the table with a git 'er dun mandate.

The gap can be narrowed without sitting at the table. All the MEC has to do is drop some of their more outlandish demands, and notify the mediator that they're ready to talk. I think the MEC is there, and waiting for the NMB decision so as to avoid negotiating against themselves.

And yes, I think we should "stay the course" (I can say that now that Bush has dropped it). It's too late in the game to fire the whole army, including the generals, train new ones, then resume the war with a bunch of FNGs!

That would be a very foolish move.

So are you saying that the MEC knows it needs to come off some of the "outlandish" demands, but is waiting for the NMB to force them to do it? Why can't they just do it. Sounds like they are playing games. One way or the other, they are going to have to come of those demands. Why wait for the NMB to force them. Show some leadership and do what it takes to get the job done.

 

[FightingIrish]

You and your fellow hand puppets want change then vote for it. And if your change candidates don't win then how about getting on board with the majority and stop all your whining.

And if they do win, will you get on board with them?

 

[Tarzan]

Whats the point anymore. Even if it does come down to a strike, the Imperial Federal Government will not allow it to happen just as Mesaba will not be able to strike.

And before any W bashers start, Clintonoid disallowed an American strike just minutes after it started. So that dog, vote for a politician because he pays lip service to labor, won't hunt.

I just fail to see the point in all this any longer of even having a union if our biggest tool is taken away from us.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So are you saying that the MEC knows it needs to come off some of the "outlandish" demands, but is waiting for the NMB to force them to do it? Why can't they just do it. Sounds like they are playing games. One way or the other, they are going to have to come of those demands. Why wait for the NMB to force them. Show some leadership and do what it takes to get the job done.

If you will continue to spin my words, we'll have nothing else to debate.

As I said above, it wouldn't be smart strategy to negotiate against themselves. They should wait for the company's counterproposal first, since it IS THE COMPANY'S TURN.

And nothing is going to come from EITHER SIDE until the NMB rules on the proffer. That's pretty standard at every company. Once you request a proffer, you stand by for the result, because if you want a proffer, negotiating voluntarily will most likely cause the board to say there's no need for one. A proffer is made when there's an impasse. If you're voluntarily negotiating, there's no impasse. The union needs a proffer to set a completion date for negotiations. Until that happens, this company will not get serious. They will just continue stringing us and the mediator along by throwing out scraps.

Clearly you know nothing about NMB negotiations. I would suggest you stop embarassing yourself until you get some education on negotiating strategy. Contrary to popular belief, it's a lot more in-depth than buying a car!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Whats the point anymore. Even if it does come down to a strike, the Imperial Federal Government will not allow it to happen just as Mesaba will not be able to strike.

And before any W bashers start, Clintonoid disallowed an American strike just minutes after it started. So that dog, vote for a politician because he pays lip service to labor, won't hunt.

I just fail to see the point in all this any longer of even having a union if our biggest tool is taken away from us.

Just for your information, Clinton stopped the APA strike (American Pilots) because the AFL-CIO asked him to. The other labor groups at AA had asked the APA not to do it, and to get on board so as not to bankrupt the company, but the APA flipped them off and called a strike. The other groups had all taken their pay cuts, and felt it was unfair to let the APA take the company down. Apparently Clinton agreed, and did what the majority of the union workers wanted, not the minority.