Both Mesa GO! pilots fall asleep during flight

[Soverytired]

Y

ps. problem can be helped by consuming your favorite beverage to help aid in the sleeping process.

Ok, I know this was meant in jest, but in point of fact, alcohol inhibits R.E.M. sleep, especially deep R.E.M. sleep, so if your sleep-time is short, alcohol induced sleep is counter-productive.

Just an FYI from someone who knows WAY too much about not getting enough sleep on the stand-ups.

 

[Soverytired]

I wasn't part of the crowd trashing the pilots, but yes, it is blatantly their own fault. If they were that tired it was their responsibility to call in fatigued. Thankfully they were in cruise and didn't kill anyone.

Although not specifically defending this Mesa crew, it's not always quite so easy to "call in fatigued".


Remember, you cannot "forecast fatigue" . . even though I guarantee you that many of these schedules Mesa writes (outside the islands) are obviously fatigue inducing, the actual "fatigue event" doesn't occur until actually airborne. Usually around 0230, or on the last leg of the morning when heading back to base.

Don't blame the crews. Blame the company for writing these jacked up schedules, because in-flight fatigue is entirely predictable. Except YOU'RE not allowed to predict fatigue.

 

[waveflyer]

Long layovers with awkward showtimes can be just as bad as short layovers with no time to rest.

This is a good point.
Why i like WN's keeping the schedules consistent.

I actually think JB's transcon out and backs would help w/ fatigue=- Think- 11 hours of flight time in a 12 hour duty day would mean that you could avoid a long layover w/ a 3 hour time change- You'd get 22 hours in 2 days w/ a 12 hour break in between. 2 on 5 off! That would be too nice. that kind of schedule would not be worse than 15hour days, multiple legs on 8hours flight time. I've always thought they should keep the week/month/yearly flying maxes- and then only limit the time on duty in a day-

I don't care how much i fly in a day- it's the DUTY time, # of legs, and the wierd sleep schedules that fatigue me. JB got crucified for that experiment- but noone's talking about the 15 hour days and constant reversing of sleep schedules.

 

[go!ng for broke]

Mesa/GO! pilots admitted being asleep after incident. Capt. had history of sleeping in cockpit. Next up @ 6pm, Drug test results.

 

[topdawg]

I am so sorry to hear that 2 GO! pilots lost their job. I was hoping it was all of mesa's pilots!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASH1002/history/20080213/1929Z/PHNL/PHTO

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Soverytired]

.....

 

[dash8driver]

Mesa/GO! pilots admitted being asleep after incident. Capt. had history of sleeping in cockpit. Next up @ 6pm, Drug test results.

Really? I'd love to see that article please.

http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/5870/169

KGMB9 Confirms Go! Pilots Asleep Written by Stacy Loe - [email protected] April 25, 2008 12:00 AM

We knew it was a possibility. And tonight we have confirmation.

The two go! Airlines pilots who overshot their destination and failed to respond to air traffic controllers, did in fact fall asleep in the cockpit.

Sources tell KGMB9 News, the pilots admitted dozing off in interviews with National Transportation Safety Board investigators. Sources say the pilots told investigators they were worn out, but thought they were okay to fly that day.

"This is a very serious situation," said Peter Forman, airline analyst.

For nearly 20 minutes on February 13th, air traffic controllers tried to contact the pilots on flight 1002 and received no response.

A radar track shows the plane overshot the Hilo airport by 15 miles and headed out to sea, before turning around and landing safely.

KGMB9 News has confirmed both pilots admitted they fell asleep in the cockpit.

"That makes me kind of nervous, scared that I was on that flight. We went past the location were were supposed to go to. We could have just ran out of gas in the air or anything could have happened," said King Whetstone, a passenger on flight 1002.

Sources say the captain, a 16 year veteran, also confessed he has fallen asleep in mid-air before.

We've learned, after the incident he was admitted to Standford Medical Center, where he was diagnosed with a severe case of sleep apnea.

"Certaintly that is an individual problem with one pilot but you have 2 pilots on board. The other pilot should have been able to stay awake," said Forman.

Sources tell KGMB9 tests show the pilots had no alcohol, narcotics or prescription drugs in their systems.

So why did they both nod off? One possible factor. We've learned they flew together 2 days before and on those flights, the autopilot on the plane wasn't working. So they had to use manual controls.

"There's a lot more fatigue taking place when you are hand flying the airplane. It takes a lot of concentration to hold altitude in a jet because it wants to go up and down," explained Forman.

Go's parent company - Mesa - fired the pilots last week. And sources reveal they were let go for not reporting the incident to the company right away.

"I think that's a way the airline says we are going to get rid of the problem of these two pilots but we are not going to admit any guilt. So it's putting it all on the pilots," said Forman.

Mesa had no comment on these new developments.

For years, pilots with the company have complained about exhausting schedules and staffing shortages. In 2007, nearly half of its pilots quit.

"So we not only have a problem with fatigue but we also have a problem with a lack of experience in the cockpit and those two factors, fatigue and lack of experience that's a potentionally dangerous combination and someone should look at this carefully," said Forman.

The N-T-S-B won't comment until it's report is released. But we've learned its focusing a significant portion of it's investigation into pilot fatigue, a big problem in the industry. Last Updated ( April 25, 2008 01:24 AM )

 

[Soverytired]

Confirmation from unnamed "sources". Nice. And remember, the press is never, ever wrong.

Doesn't look good though. The captain apparently had a medical condition. Apparently the "sources" didn't get the details from the fo . . . although he's certainly looking like the biggest goat in all this.

And yeah, they should have told the company. THAT was indefensible and chicken-sit. However . . . I understand it. And unless you're a perfect pilot, you do as well.

I'll wait for the NTSB report. I hope like hell this spurs some regulatory changes.

 

[dash8driver]

dont get your hopes up. the ntsb has a list of things (including fatigue) that the FAA has been ignoring for a while.

 

[go!ng for broke]

How could this happen? Think About it. Lets be honest. They must have been taking turns naping. Maybe the first one asleep wins and gets 15 minites. How could they both fall asleep at the same time unless it was acceptable for one to nap then the other. On a 30 minite flight at 10 am with a 6 am start its just bullsh!t. so sorry soverytired!

 

[waveflyer]

go!ng for broke-

i've said it before- you clearly don't know about the cumulative affects of fatigue-- w/ mesa's schedules this was simply a matter of time. And it begs for OVERSIGHT! I'm curious how many pilots gut out schedules that are not good for their health in the long term. I'm not sticking up for the pilots- i don't get why mesa pilots put up w/ so much crap and allow so much unprofessionalism into their airline... (seriously- shoe shines and ironing are not that hard- you'll feel better) But then again- i don't think i'd last at mesa very long for the same reasons-- whoever's left... well....
The problem though is that this AIRLINE is competing w/ every other airline where the pilots do stick up for safety and long term health. Not to mention a long term career-- how much money does mesa save just by paying half their pilots 1st year pay every year b/c of the turnover? So w/o crucifying or justifying the pilots- can we all agree that mesa getting this kind of press and pressure is a great thing and more needs to happen.

 

[go!ng for broke]

I hear ya. I believe Mesa's management is taking advantage of the FAA's desire to keep the final decission to fly in the hands of the pilots. This is where iin my opinion it belongs. There is no way the federal regs are going to make everyone happy. People are different and so are the way they feel, sleep and work. If they were fatigued they should have called in. It then beomes a Mesa problem as it should be.