Both Mesa GO! pilots fall asleep during flight

[Hikoushi]

So am I reading these reports right, there was 2 SEPARATE incidents in the same week? So the Hilo flight overflew the field out of radio contact at 21000 feet; what about the other one at Kona? Did they deviate from their flight path, or was it just a lost comm deal?

 

[dash8driver]

dear mr. skellon,

fact: you are not an airline captain, you are the VP of mesa communications. if you are an airline captain, which airline are you flying at?

fact: your pee-pee must be pretty small if you have to try to impress a bunch of regional pilots by telling them how many hours you have, and that its international! woooooooooo. add on top of that the part where you try to tell everyone that you're an airline captain.

 

[RJP]

fact: your pee-pee must be pretty small if you have to try to impress a bunch of regional pilots by telling them how many hours you have

I don't know how many hours I have, but I have over 1300 posts!

Impressed yet D8D? :beer:

 

[go!ng for broke]

wow..there was another incident the day before. maybe HAL-9000 wont let the pilots fly the plane or talk on the radios.


Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Dave Bowman: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL?
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
Dave Bowman: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL?
HAL: I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
Dave Bowman: Where the hell'd you get that idea, HAL?
HAL: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

Hal: wait a minite..........wait a minite The GO! unit is going to fail

 

[go!ng for broke]

This was in my company e-mail, fwiw-


February 21, 2008

Dear Fellow Employees

Much has been ‘reported’ in the media concerning an incident involving the flight crew of go! Flight 1002, operating between Honolulu and Kona, on February 13. A number of those media reports contained inaccuracies and ‘opinions’ which impact negatively on the reputation of our Company and on our people. As we communicated to you yesterday, Mesa is cooperating fully with the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) investigation which is currently under way. Both pilots have been removed from flight duties pending the outcome of that investigation, and we feel it would not be prudent to comment further until that is completed.

That being said, it is also important that we share with you some of the facts.

• One media report out of Hawaii maintained that “the co pilot was inexperienced”

Fact: The First Officer (co pilot) has at total of 1,250 flight hours with 500 hours on the CRJ

The captain of the flight has 25,000 hours total flight experience and 8,000 hours on the CRJ. Both are experienced pilots.

• The same media report maintains that the captain “…..was based in Nashville, but was working in Hawaii on a one week forced assignment.”

Fact: On December 17, 2007, the captain submitted a bid for temporary duty based in Hawaii in either Maui (first preference) or Kona (second preference). He has been in Hawaii since January 13

Fact: FAA Regulations provide for a minimum of 8 hours rest prior to commencement of flying duties

Fact: Three days prior to February 13 over-flight incident, the captain had a rest period of 14 hours and 55 minutes prior to commencement of his flight duty, two days prior he had a rest period of 14 hours 55 minutes and the night prior to the incident, his rest period was 14 hours and 53 minutes.

In the case of the first officer the rest periods on those same three days prior to the February 13 incident were 38 hours 52 minutes, 14 hours and 55 minutes and 14 hours 53 minutes respectively.


Fact: Federal Aviation Regulations allow for a maximum duty day of 16 hours.
The average length of duty for the captain during the three days prior to February 13 was 8 hours 39 minutes.

The average length of duty for the first officer on the two days worked prior to February 13 was 9 hours and 6 minutes. Three days prior the first officer had a day off.


As an experienced airline captain myself with more than 14,000 hours of international flight experience, mostly on Boeing 737s, I thought it was important, and might be of interest to you, if I shared these facts to correct some of the inaccuracies being reported.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or comments.


Best regards,

Paul


Paul Skellon
Vice President Corporate Communications
Mesa Air Group

I think I will stay with Fed. Judge Faris on anything this Company says. If you have followed the Ha vs Go! trial than you know what I mean. This company has lied and twisted the truth from the begining. Why change now?? History repeats its self..

 

[John Pennekamp]

dear mr. skellon,

fact: you are not an airline captain, you are the VP of mesa communications. if you are an airline captain, which airline are you flying at?

fact: your pee-pee must be pretty small if you have to try to impress a bunch of regional pilots by telling them how many hours you have, and that its international! woooooooooo. add on top of that the part where you try to tell everyone that you're an airline captain.

Not to mention "mostly on Boeing 737s". Oooooh, everyone is so impressed!

 

[John Pennekamp]

I'll acknowledge this: If it was loss comm, it was improperly handled, and that's a fact.


That said, every "other" crew's boo-boo's are an opportunities for professionals like us to remember that not only CAN "it" happen to us, it WILL, at the worst possible moment . . . . so it's best to be prepared.

Be honest . . . quick:

• Name the light gun signals (colors, differences between airborne/ground use, what they mean, how far they can be seen day/night, etc.)
• Name the signals you'll encounter from an Air Force intercept, and your proper procedures to respond back. Day and night please. No time for looking at your manuals . . .this is the only chance that USAF boy has for a live fire exercise and he's looking awfully eager.
• Proper IFR lost comm procedures. You're whizzing along at 6 miles a minute and land in 10 minutes. Diagnose, or fly the plane? (Ok, fly the plane)

And so forth. However this turns out, I'm gonna look at it as a learning experience and there for the grace o'god go I. Bushing up on the basics is a good place to start.

So was it you, or your boyfriend, Soverytired (nice name by the way... "So Very Tired")?

Give it a rest. Your defense of this crew is stupid, and your implausible scenarios to excuse them are asinine.

 

[Soverytired]

So was it you, or your boyfriend, Soverytired (nice name by the way... "So Very Tired")?

Give it a rest. Your defense of this crew is stupid, and your implausible scenarios to excuse them are asinine.

JP, you are capable of a far better rebuttal than an ad hominem attack with a homophobic slur.

(That was your intent, right? I can't even say I'm offended. What are you, like 12 or something? Does anyone in the professional airline world even care about "sexual orientation" anymore?)

Why don't you tell me again how great ALPA safety committees and ALPA legal services are. I'm not with Mesa anymore, but based on what I've heard, there's a good chance the CA was "Freedom-A".

Convince me that ALPA will spend every dime and move every mountain to save their "ALPA member in good standing" careers.

 

[John Pennekamp]

JP, you are capable of a far better rebuttal than an ad hominem attack with a homophobic slur.

(That was your intent, right? I can't even say I'm offended. What are you, like 12 or something? Does anyone in the professional airline world even care about "sexual orientation" anymore?)

Why don't you tell me again how great ALPA safety committees and ALPA legal services are. I'm not with Mesa anymore, but based on what I've heard, there's a good chance the CA was "Freedom-A".

Convince me that ALPA will spend every dime and move every mountain to save their "ALPA member in good standing" careers.

" Ad hominem attack with a homophobic slur"? Big words. What going to law school? Are we impressed? No.

No homophobic attack intended. I always assumed you were a girl by your comments, hence my comment. Sorry about that.

 

[RJP]

" Ad hominem attack with a homophobic slur"? Big words. What going to law school? Are we impressed?

I hate to admit it but I was a teensy bit impressed since I had no f***ing idea what t-rex was saying.

Then again, I didn't really care.

 

[Soverytired]

" Ad hominem attack with a homophobic slur"? Big words. What going to law school? Are we impressed? No.

No homophobic attack intended. I always assumed you were a girl by your comments, hence my comment. Sorry about that.

Nah. I'm just assuming that I'm addressing highly trained and well-educated professionals that don't need to be spoken down-to with monosyllabic words.

My bad.

I am curious what about my posting would lead you to guess "F" for my gender box check-off. Please elaborate. Do so in a non-sexist way, if you can.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Nah. I'm just assuming that I'm addressing highly trained and well-educated professionals that don't need to be spoken down-to with monosyllabic words.

My bad.

I am curious what about my posting would lead you to guess "F" for my gender box check-off. Please elaborate. Do so in a non-sexist way, if you can.

I can't. Your constant and effeminate use of the passive possessive tense, your apparent lack of ability to understand complex logic, your tendency toward the irrational, and your tendency to compartmentalize everything led me to that conclusion. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding ma'am... uh I mean sir. Hey, even if you have no excuse for being a girlie man, at least you're saving money on Tampax.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Radio news here in Hawaii is saying the two pilots involved have been suspended.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080222/NEWS09/802220377/1019/NEWS09

go! pilots who overshot Hilo Airport suspended


Associated Press

Mesa Air Group said it has suspended two pilots of a go! airlines flight that overshot Hilo Airport on Wednesday.

The Federal Aviation Administration and the airline are investigating whether the pilots had fallen asleep during the incident.

The morning flight from Honolulu turned back and landed safely after overshooting the airport in Hilo by 15 miles.

Officials said air traffic controllers tracking the plane by radar were unable to contact the cockpit for 25 minutes.

Mesa has not released names of the suspended pilots but a spokesman said the captain has more than 15 years of flying experience.

An airline internal memo says the company takes seriously any occurrence that has the potential of adversely affecting normal operations of a flight.

An FAA spokesman said the agency plans to interview the pilots of the 214-mile flight. Under FAA rules, they could be subject to a warning, suspension or license revocation depending on the findings.

A radar track of the flight provided by www.flightaware.com shows that the plane remained at 21,000 feet as it flew past Hilo before returning to the airport.

 

[RJP]

Radio news here in Hawaii is saying the two pilots involved have been suspended.

Old news. See post #77.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Old news. See post #77.

Thanks for the post 77 reference.
I doubt this story is in the news as much as it has been daily in Hawaii???

 

[Taildraggaah]

Not defending the "screw-ups" here. Remember though, you don't have the facts, and neither do I. IF they truly behaved in a "careless and reckless" manner, they'll be punished by both the FAA and the company. ...


...(Remember, No one got hurt, no equipment was damaged, and no loss of separation occurred. People will be punished. Big. Frikin. Deal.)

Soverytired,

While I fully agree with you that we don't have the facts yet, do you really mean that comment about "Big. Frikin. Deal."?

Lets say for a minute that the facts come out that they were in fact asleep, would you still feel this way?

Would you feel this way if you or your loved ones were flying in back (and facts presented that they were in fact asleep)?

Not arguing your points about crew rest and poor scheduling or poor sleep/social habits of the flight crews or combination of the former. But as a professional aviator can you honestly say that two pilots falling asleep at the controls is no big deal, again if the investigation proves this to be so?

 

[Club ORD FO]

I know what happened. The old independence birds are fighting back, "Airplane II" style, and gassed the pilots.

Ahh, I miss those planes. I feel sorry for them out there.

 

[RJP]

This was in the paper today t-rex. Aloha.

Go! flight report finds no mechanical flaws

By Gene Park
[email protected]
The National Transportation Safety Board released a preliminary report of its investigation into a go! airlines flight that flew past the Hilo airport on Feb. 13, apparently because the two pilots fell asleep.

A check of the plane after the flight showed no problems with its pressurization system or carbon monoxide in the plane, according to the report. The NTSB also says there were 40 passengers and three crewmembers on the flight, which left Honolulu at 9:16 a.m.

Flight 1002 was at 21,000 feet when air traffic controllers made several attempts to contact the pilots. Controllers contacted the plane at about 10 a.m., but by that time the plane had flown about 15 miles past the airport. It landed safely about 15 minutes later.

The preliminary report draws no conclusions about why the plane overshot the airport.

Mesa Air Group, which owns go!, has suspended the two pilots. FAA spokesman Ian Gregor said the NTSB and the FAA are conducting separate investigations into whether the captain and first officer fell asleep during the flight.

Flight logs obtained by the Star-Bulletin say both pilots finished their Feb. 12 shift at 2:47 p.m. and returned to duty at 5:40 a.m.

 

[CitationLover]

the CA was a notorious "sleeper" with lots of past incidents that were reported according to some on mesahub.

 

[OB-CPO]

JP, you are capable of a far better rebuttal than an ad hominem attack with a homophobic slur.

(That was your intent, right? I can't even say I'm offended. What are you, like 12 or something? Does anyone in the professional airline world even care about "sexual orientation" anymore?)

since this incident occured I have become gomophopic. I have a fear of getting fukced by go! Airlines

 

[Soverytired]

Soverytired,

While I fully agree with you that we don't have the facts yet, do you really mean that comment about "Big. Frikin. Deal."?

It was an unfortunate choice of words.

Perhaps a better way of saying it would be "No harm, no foul?"

If the FAA rules that they were asleep (which I still doubt), they will be reprimanded.

As for loved ones in the back: I already know that this happens far more often than anyone cares to admit. Not in Hawaii on the short hops, but on the red-eye camping trips state-side. I'm not happy about it at all, it IS a big deal, but ultimately, I have to judge this incident in isolation, and the end results are:

No one was hurt. Mesa was embarrassed in the eyes of the media and the flying public. It's not a big enough deal to spur any regulatory changes, and that's a g-danged shame.

 

[Soverytired]

This was in the paper today t-rex. Aloha.

Thx for the update. Do you seriously think that these turkeys were asleep on a 20 minute flight though?

I just don't buy it. We'll find out soon enough, I guess.

 

[knewhigher]

Soverytired,

While I fully agree with you that we don't have the facts yet, do you really mean that comment about "Big. Frikin. Deal."?

Lets say for a minute that the facts come out that they were in fact asleep, would you still feel this way?

Would you feel this way if you or your loved ones were flying in back (and facts presented that they were in fact asleep)?

Not arguing your points about crew rest and poor scheduling or poor sleep/social habits of the flight crews or combination of the former. But as a professional aviator can you honestly say that two pilots falling asleep at the controls is no big deal, again if the investigation proves this to be so?

Your avatar is amazing.

 

[dash8driver]

excellent post.. i think you've summed it up right there.

this mindset:

Perhaps a better way of saying it would be "No harm, no foul?"

is why have to wait for blood to get anything done.

 

[dooork]

excellent post.. i think you've summed it up right there.

this mindset:



is why have to wait for blood to get anything done.

Yep, maybe thats why the FAA has sent us all the runway incursion stuff....with ASA crossing an active runway and all.

 

[dash8driver]

Yep, maybe thats why the FAA has sent us all the runway incursion stuff....with ASA crossing an active runway and all.

haha yea.. you mean that stuff most people threw into the trash? i'm sure that was a great day at the FAA head office. it must have went something like this:

Fed #1: hey, what can we do to limit incursions?

Fed #2: i know! lets send everyone a letter telling them not to do it!

Fed #1: brilliant! lets take the rest of the day off!

Fed #2: brilliant!



more than likely all that stuff is just a set up to help hang the next people that do it. at the next hearing the feds will be saying "we told you once, and then we told you twice...."

 

[RJP]

Thx for the update. Do you seriously think that these turkeys were asleep on a 20 minute flight though?

:blush: I wish there was a "sleeping" avatar. This is the best I could do.

D8D: Brilliant post.

 

[go!ng for broke]

Sleeping at the wheel is no big deal??

http://www.craveonline.com/videos/videos/00007063/fast_train.html

 

[scangadah]

Geeze ...... for $9.00 you would think you could get to the destination.

 

[Mesa Beer]

Looks like there is going to be more sleeping pilots with the inevitable meth shortage since the J.D. bust.

Mesa might have to send in the next airplane back to Phoenix for heavy checks a little sooner than planned.

I bet they can hide way more than 50 lbs of meth in a CRJ being ferried back to Hawaii.