Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

[Lampshade]

This issue cannot be solved unless General Lee chimes in.

 

[m80drvr]

USAIR pilots: Time to shut the place down. You can only take so much, so I say to 3100 plus pilot:Its better to die standing up then live on your knees. Their are plenty of jobs around. Virgin, Skybus and lots of carriers overseas are better then what you got
Just do it.

Marty

Great one Marty, Go ahead shut the place down. I'm sure you will easily be able to find employment with 5000 plus pilots newly out of a job. Not to mention the other 30,000 employees that work for U. I think the to 40% of the U list will not follow your lead though. But "good luck storming the castle"

 

[m80drvr]

This issue cannot be solved unless General Lee chimes in.

Somehow he will tie in the name Oberstar, I can just feel it!

 

[Groucho]

For over 50 years DOH was the standard ALPA position. With provisions and protections for different types of flying, ie wide body international etc.

It was good enough for PI/US and for PSA/US and for Allegheny Mowhak etc etc etc. It was the standard until the junior United pilots got it changed because they were afraid of a merge with US.

IF you take this to it's ridiculous conclusion when this company merges with Virgin, or Skybus or Spirit then all those pilots, some with less than one year seniority, hired as captains off the street, will be senior to most West pilots. Your service time will count for nothing.

You will see more mergers, and you may not like what you get, praticularly as you grow older and spend more time in this industry. Your prior service time has no meaning. If the company merges with some upstart you will get hosed.

A great way to build ALPA unity.

 

[TWA Dude]

By the logic of this award, the slotting starts at the 500 and goes down from there.

The fault in your logic is that every integration is different.

 

[Lampshade]

AAA pilots were looking for payback for past injustices and they wanted to extract restitutuon from AWA pilots, they demanded there merger committee go for DOH. Justice prevailed and sometimes karma's just a bitch.

 

[TWA Dude]

For over 50 years DOH was the standard ALPA position.

And for over 50 years there were very few upstarts. Deregulation altered the industry completely. I don't know the exact reason why DOH was removed from ALPA Merger Policy (in the early '90s, I think) but it probably had to do with the fact that DOH may or may not be fair depending on the particular circumstances. DOH would've meant 2/3 of AWA pilots stapled to USA. You're free to believe that's fair but the arbitrator obviously didn't.

 

[5150]

They don't need to "Shut it down". USAirways will fail on it's own in short order. Better get your logbooks and resumes up to date !

 

[JetMonkey]

For over 50 years DOH was the standard ALPA position. With provisions and protections for different types of flying, ie wide body international etc.

It was good enough for PI/US and for PSA/US and for Allegheny Mowhak etc etc etc. It was the standard until the junior United pilots got it changed because they were afraid of a merge with US.

IF you take this to it's ridiculous conclusion when this company merges with Virgin, or Skybus or Spirit then all those pilots, some with less than one year seniority, hired as captains off the street, will be senior to most West pilots. Your service time will count for nothing.

You will see more mergers, and you may not like what you get, praticularly as you grow older and spend more time in this industry. Your prior service time has no meaning. If the company merges with some upstart you will get hosed.

A great way to build ALPA unity.

It'll all depend on our expectations and what we'll bring to the table at that time. Just like it did here.

 

[regionaltard]

odell got put ahead of colello - thats f'in bullsh1t. east got the shaft big time.

tell me how the fvck does someone that got hired in 2005 get put ahead of someone with an 1986 DOH?

Uh, because he had a job maybe? Pilots at an airline that was days from liquidation prior to the merger talking about other pilots receiving a windfall at their expense need to put down the crack pipe and take a reality bath. The prospects for AW's survival without the merger can be debated; USAir's cannot. The award seems consistent with both policy and precedent.

 

[Fast43]

You are exactly right. I wish more people saw it this way. It is a very emotional topic BUT what did east expect? Furloughed pilots brought nothing to the table. As for the last East guy on the list with over 18 yrs on property, did he actually expect to have his RELATIVE position change? Did he expect to come through this with 4 bars on his shoulder? Talk about a windfall! Like it or not it went relative seniority more or less.

I think much of the blame lies with the east merger committee. Not in so much as they didn't try their hardest but in the fact that DOH was a pipe dream from the beginning. The expectations of the East pilots were not managed well and they were led to believe that they could get DOH and capture some of their lost seniority at the expense of a another pilot group who were working for a growing carrier. That was just not going to happen. Someone on the east side should have been preparing the pilot group.

Now I read on the east messsage board of how guys are going to try to shut the company down so the west guys can suffer like they have. And that they should not vote on a new contract no matter what so the company has to operate the two airlines separately. And my favorite, decertify ALPA and reject the Arbitration Award. How short sighted is that? There are not too many jobs that pay 100k to an unemployed pilot that has been an FO all his career. It's time to get over it and move on. We are all lucky to be working.

Well Said !!

Since they would have you believe that they are the Superior more experienced and knowledgeable of pilot groups, lets see if their Leadership can step up and lead the way through this with the voice of reason. They shot for the moon and missed etc. If not and they take the STFD attitude then we will have proof that the west guys were right when they didn't jump for joy at the merger announcement.


Your Shot !!!

 

[Bringupthebird]

I avoid flying USAIR commuting. They are so unreliable. I wonder why pax still fly them. I give 5 years max.

Why do you need to fly USAir to commute to the 7th grade? Get back to snickering over the word booger on Myspace.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Call me stupid, but I used to fly with the 3100 USAir grampa pilots and I don't see them voting a 15-30% seniority improvement to 1800 HP savior of the world wonder kid pilots, at their own expense.

It is simple math. Grampa pilots are always willing to vote for junior pilots to loose seniority and money in exchange for a payoff to them. And grampa pilots were all too willing to vote 2000 pilots off the bottom of the USAir active list in exchange for a payoff.

In this situation Dave has to convince 3100 pilots (who collectively view themselves as senior) to acquiesce to a seniority loss to 1800 other pilots (that they perceive to be junior). The arbitrator’s ruling doesn’t change the fact that there are 3100 pilots who get to vote on when or if the list is effectively integrated.

To get the grampa pilots to adopt what they perceive as a seniority loss to themselves, it will cost a pay raise that I can't imagine Dave is interested in paying.

But who knows, maybe the grampa pilots have changed in their old age or maybe Dave is really a sugar daddy at heart.

I don't know, but I sure as heell wouldn't buy a ticket to be a customer while this is going on.

Dave? Doug? Whoever.

And why should anyone think that the US East pilots will ever work together for their common good? It's never happened in the past.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

So, with the widebodies fenced, will the senior USAirways East pilots be able to bump the AWA 757 pilots off their Hawaiian routes? When will East pilots be able to bid West domiciles like PHX and LAS and vice versa? Watch the older East pilots bid sunny Phoenix (pre-retirement) at the first chance.

I love to hear the East pilots crying about their arbitration result. Perhaps they should consider that they were weeks away from LIQUIDATION and the unemployment line? Does that ring a bell? They should consider themselves lucky in my opinion - especially the top 500...

The answer is no they can't. There must be a west vacancy in order to bid out here and our vp/fltops has just stated that there will be no west vacancies for the remainder of 07 at least.

No reason to pound chests over this thing and rub their noses in it. We must take the high road here and be professional.

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Call me stupid, but I used to fly with the 3100 USAir grampa pilots and I don't see them voting a 15-30% seniority improvement to 1800 HP savior of the world wonder kid pilots, at their own expense.

It is simple math. Grampa pilots are always willing to vote for junior pilots to loose seniority and money in exchange for a payoff to them. And grampa pilots were all too willing to vote 2000 pilots off the bottom of the USAir active list in exchange for a payoff.

In this situation Dave has to convince 3100 pilots (who collectively view themselves as senior) to acquiesce to a seniority loss to 1800 other pilots (that they perceive to be junior). The arbitrator’s ruling doesn’t change the fact that there are 3100 pilots who get to vote on when or if the list is effectively integrated.

To get the grampa pilots to adopt what they perceive as a seniority loss to themselves, it will cost a pay raise that I can't imagine Dave is interested in paying.

But who knows, maybe the grampa pilots have changed in their old age or maybe Dave is really a sugar daddy at heart.

I don't know, but I sure as heell wouldn't buy a ticket to be a customer while this is going on.

Then they will simply get left behind while we ratify a contract on this side. They will not hold us hostage while they play out there games. The third part has spoken it's over so lets move on...

BTW who's Dave????

WD.

 

[johnsonrod]

Merger integration is always a b!tch... I'm sure the airport/hotel vans are going to be lively where the routes and layovers overlap... At least you all have decent jobs.... Imagine what would have happened had Delta been added to the picture - talk about an integration MESS............ It could have been worse.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

They don't need to "Shut it down". USAirways will fail on it's own in short order. Better get your logbooks and resumes up to date !

Based on what there partner???

I love how you dime store analyst come out of the wood work with this horse$hit. We were the most profitable carrier last yr and we are doing well this year so far inspite of the bad wx, high fuel and system glitches. So tell us airline business guru why are we going TU in short order???

WD

 

[nosoupforyou!]

Wow,

It is a sad day. What a suck place to work now. Sounds like the old Pan Am - National merger. "Integration by expectation". Well maybe not quite the same but man, it's still a chit sandwich.

Now I know why I don't need ALPA to help me here at JetBlue.

Good luck with it.

I should get out of this biz before it's too late.

 

[Turtle21]

Dave? Doug? Whoever.

And why should anyone think that the US East pilots will ever work together for their common good? It's never happened in the past.

You are correct. They have not. You won't get 3100 voting US pilots on one list to vote the same way, but they have never failed to have 60-80% on the top work together to hose the bottom.

And there are jsut a few grampas that think there are 1800 new pilots on the list that aren't in the circle of friends. The grampa pilots perceive that a joint contract will cost them a windfall. Maybe it isn't true, but try to tell them.

And if Jack Daniels thinks he can count on the top 500 pilots at US, then he better get busy, cause at the rate of negotiations the top 700 are gonna be retired before he gets a joint TA out for vote.

 

[Marko Ramius]

All these people that talk about the '3100' grandpa's voting this down to spite Parker and the AWA pilots are silly. If Parker wants these two carriers to be operated separately(always a possibility but unlikely with the Feds), than he'll let you play your games. If not, he'll throw out the one thing he knows will make U's pilots fold like Dirk Nowitzki-money. The AWA pilots never had a pension, U did and lost it without much time to make it up with or without 65. Considering what they lost and how much time they have to make it up, anything that will bump up their retirements will trump the rest of this garbage. No need for Parker to negotiate seriously prior to a list merger award, now he knows exactly what he's working with and what he needs to do to get a deal done. The U pilots have been punked for too long, they will fall for money and then go out and spend the rest of the time bitching about the award and litigating.