Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

[PositiveRate]

"Call me stupid, but I used to fly with the 3100 USAir grampa pilots and I don't see them voting a 15-30% seniority improvement to 1800 HP savior of the world wonder kid pilots, at their own expense."

You're stupid. Any other requests?

Refresh my memory, but what is your dog in this fight? Are you furloughed, active, retired or just here to hear yourself talk?

-----

Lear,

right around 1820-1830 pilots at present (+/-)
do a search on the retirement #'s, but a ballpark average is 50/year for a while.

 

[5150]

Prime example of why this integration is the final nail in the coffin for USAirways. With an award this lopsided, the bitterness and resentment will bring this operation to it's knees. I give this place another year or two, then it's finished. Better start looking for work now and beat the rush.

So much for unity.

With Sincere Apologies to BenderGonzales and LearLove here I go on a rant.

This reaction is predictable. If there's one thing you can count on its the hubris of AAA pilots. Do you fly the same way? "What T-storm? I expect there to be good weather ahead..."

To recap:
Top 500 go to East
Wide Body Fences
No Bump and Flush
List Integrated by ALPA Merger Policy
Furloughed pilots slotted like pretty much every other merger in history.

And still you think you got hosed.... Lets not forget the pass policy is DOH. Or that you come back at your time in service pay. But no, you must have got hosed because now you're gonna fly your same equipment at the same relative seniority, OMFG! How did this happen to you!?

You guys were tools from the absolute beginning of this thing. We started at a reasonable point and you directed your MEC to go for broke. Guess what, you guys are BOTH OLD AND F@@CKING SENILE to expect any other outcome than this.

Now your senility is showing because you'd rather work under a BK agreement than work to get a new contract with better work rules (more time for that afternoon nap grandpa), better pay and a healthier company.

Sorry, but your 16 years would have looked real good at your next interview. You could have told 'em what a great place USAirways was before it F**cking liquidated....

Gear up Gramps! Or do you need your service monkey to reach over and get that for you so you don't throw out your trick back?

I've lost pretty much all respect for those who have gone before me, whinin' freaken' babies.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

There's no voting... Its an ARBITRATOR. There might be suing, but voting doesn't enter into it.

 

[Turtle21]

"Call me stupid, but I used to fly with the 3100 USAir grampa pilots and I don't see them voting a 15-30% seniority improvement to 1800 HP savior of the world wonder kid pilots, at their own expense."

You're stupid. Any other requests?

Boy you are a quick one. Short sighted and reactionary, but A+ for speed.

 

[Groucho]

Reducto Absurdum

Reduce to the Absurd....

Virgin America goes ALPA in their third month of operation.
US Aiways buys Virgin. By the logic of this award, the slotting starts at the 500 and goes down from there.

Most Virgin pilots, with three months longevity, will end up senior to F/O's with 20 + years of service. Virgin Capts, off the street, will be senior to pilots with 25 yrs of service. This is ALPA national merger policy?? This will breed unity and union effectiveness??

This will help destroy ALPA. Just remember you will all be senior in terms of length of service at some time or another. If, when the picture is taken, you are not also senior in terms of position that snapshot will wreck your
career.

As a poster above said, this will destroy the airline. Maybe, maybe not but operationally things just got real bleak around here. If every merger just gets you screwed further and there is nothing you can do to protect yourself after 20 + years why not just let it tank on it's own. Parker hasn't got a clue on how to run an operation, he doesn't need any help screwing it up.



Ther will be more mergers coming. What then??

 

[Carl S.]

517 for sure yes votes, then 1000 highly likely yes votes, so 50% plus one to get away from LOA 93 is almost a lock on AWA POS Contract 2004. AAA made out on this, so it matters what active "voting" members do, not side line tough talking" beauty queens" think.

 

[the turtle]

Doesnt mattter if you are east or west, we can all agree that Mesa still sucks.

Good God Man, that was just the kind of speedbump this thread needs!

You Win A Cookie!!!

 

[eaglefly]

Sounds like after hearing of this, most of the U geezers will either flop over from Anger-driven heart attacks or strokes, drive themselves insane, or end up in D-block after poping a cap in the old ladies arse and torturing the cat after watching him spell out the letters A W in the catbox with his dried turds.

5 years from now, most will be then be history...............perhaps Nicolau was thinking long-term. Perhaps Parker threw him some cash and transferred to him his $400,000 of Jack Daniels stock.

Who knows.

 

[xrated]

.

Just get used to it, you are gonna hear bitching until the last USAir pilot retires.

No problem, that's what, two years away?

 

[PositiveRate]

"Boy you are a quick one. Short sighted and reactionary, but A+ for speed."

Please explain to me how I am being short sighted...This should be good....

Can you get it through your thick head that on the day this merger was announced, the junior AW pilots were flying the line with a full hiring pool waiting for class dates behind them and expected hiring in excess of 200 pilots for the year. On the flip side Colello and below were FURLOUGHED from mainline with no expectation of recall, while the remaining US Airways pilots faced, at the very best, a bleak future that likely would have brought MORE furloughs and possibly even liquidation.

This is reality. It cannot be spun, although it seems many are willing to grasp at tiny context and rear mirror views to make pathetic points (i.e. pointing out C was an MDA employee or referencing what has happened SINCE the merger closed with recalls). You don't get to erase history to suit your views and Nicolau made that loud and clear.

I empathize with the fact that many in the east have had to take far too many bites from the $hit sandwich this career has become, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation which is, when the merger was announced, I had a job at one of the merging carriers and 1700+ East guys didn't.

5150,

"Prime example of why this integration is the final nail in the coffin for USAirways. With an award this lopsided, the bitterness and resentment will bring this operation to it's knees."

I'm curious, but how is this award lopsided? Would you have considered an award that placed FURLOUGHED pilots ahead of ACTIVE pilots to not be lopsided, because that's how I read what you're saying. In that case, I would not use the word "lopsided", but rather "not to your liking"....

 

[gcsass]

and torturing the cat after watching him spell out the letters A W in the catbox with his dried turds.

quote]

Now that is truly classic!! Did anyone really think the east furloughees would get something besides a staple job? Good luck to all of you in integrating this mess..........

 

[737 Pylt]

So much for unity.

With Sincere Apologies to BenderGonzales and LearLove here I go on a rant.

This reaction is predictable. If there's one thing you can count on its the hubris of AAA pilots. Do you fly the same way? "What T-storm? I expect there to be good weather ahead..."

To recap:
Top 500 go to East
Wide Body Fences
No Bump and Flush
List Integrated by ALPA Merger Policy
Furloughed pilots slotted like pretty much every other merger in history.

And still you think you got hosed.... Lets not forget the pass policy is DOH. Or that you come back at your time in service pay. But no, you must have got hosed because now you're gonna fly your same equipment at the same relative seniority, OMFG! How did this happen to you!?

You guys were tools from the absolute beginning of this thing. We started at a reasonable point and you directed your MEC to go for broke. Guess what, you guys are BOTH OLD AND F@@CKING SENILE to expect any other outcome than this.

Now your senility is showing because you'd rather work under a BK agreement than work to get a new contract with better work rules (more time for that afternoon nap grandpa), better pay and a healthier company.

Sorry, but your 16 years would have looked real good at your next interview. You could have told 'em what a great place USAirways was before it F**cking liquidated....

Gear up Gramps! Or do you need your service monkey to reach over and get that for you so you don't throw out your trick back?

I've lost pretty much all respect for those who have gone before me, whinin' freaken' babies.

Grog:
That has to be one of the funniest rants I've ever read!
LMFAO!!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

737

 

[Turtle21]

"Boy you are a quick one. Short sighted and reactionary, but A+ for speed."

Please explain to me how I am being short sighted...This should be good....

Can you get it through your thick head...

Call me speed reading challenged. I 'm not a quick as you (and you are amenable to requests). I just don't have time to read all that. Sorta like you, I had to just stop reading after the first sentence. I’ll have to leave the response to folks quick enough to read it all.

Please remember your long stories for when I buy you a beer.:beer:

 

[Fast43]

Those who think this is lopsided need to read the Award and not just look at numbers and dates of hire. What the AAA guys asked for, actually demanded, was unreasonable and not at all in line with ALPA merger policy. Which by the way does not even mention DOH. So harping on DOH is a waste of time. Career Expectations is what needed to be compared and that is what the Arbitrator did. If you take the time to read the reasoning of the Award it will be more than clear to you that AAA had little or no Career Expectations and the Award reflected just that.

Do any of you guys on the sidelines taking pot shots care to speculate on the effect of AAA trying to put 104 guys who had never been hired by AAA or flown a Mainline jet, on a AAA-AWA combined list ahead of Active (Actually hired by one of the two Carriers) AWA pilots ??

Could it be that the energy spent trying to justify the unjustifiable would have been better spent elswhere???

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Exactly.

 

[LearLove]

So much for unity.

With Sincere Apologies to BenderGonzales and LearLove here I go on a rant.

No need to apologize to me, I've been put exactly where I expected to be put. I was never expecting or asking for anything more in my (CEL/ALG to MDA to the U list) position.

Now as for the real live U guys such as bender and the rest - especially the ones hired in the late 80's/early 90's - to you guys I'm very sorry for what has happened. It is absolutly criminal to see a guy the same age as me who was hired at Allegheny around the same time I was (99) and went to AWA in early 2004 now 100 numbers senior to a U guy hired in 88.

It doesn't matter anyway - the economy will be collapsing soon, and the airlines are the first to go and the last to recover. We will all be stuck j4j or furloughed for a very long time.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

True Lear, but I respect you and Bender. Sorry for the rant, my perspective is obviously skewed towards AWA.

Tailwinds

 

[Caveman]

I don't have a dog in this fight but from an outsiders observation it looks to me like the arbitrator got it just about right. The top 500 East guys are living large and everybody else that wasn't furloughed got roughly a relative seniority integration. The unfortunate 1700 furloughed guys and gals are still furloughed. It sucked to be them before the merger and it still sucks exactly the same post-merger. Don't blame the AWA new hire. Blame AAA management. They're the ones responsible for you being in this mess. Nicolau made the right call.

Actually, I do have a dog in this fight. All of the AAA furloughees at JetBlue are now going to stay at JetBlue. So much for my quick ascension up the seniority list. Goddamnit Nicolau! You screwed me!

 

[MCDU]

USAIR pilots: Time to shut the place down. You can only take so much, so I say to 3100 plus pilot:Its better to die standing up then live on your knees. Their are plenty of jobs around. Virgin, Skybus and lots of carriers overseas are better then what you got
Just do it.

Marty

 

[m80drvr]

I don't have a dog in this fight but from an outsiders observation it looks to me like the arbitrator got it just about right. The top 500 East guys are living large and everybody else that wasn't furloughed got roughly a relative seniority integration. The unfortunate 1700 furloughed guys and gals are still furloughed. It sucked to be them before the merger and it still sucks exactly the same post-merger. Don't blame the AWA new hire. Blame AAA management. They're the ones responsible for you being in this mess. Nicolau made the right call.

Actually, I do have a dog in this fight. All of the AAA furloughees at JetBlue are now going to stay at JetBlue. So much for my quick ascension up the seniority list. Goddamnit Nicolau! You screwed me!

You are exactly right. I wish more people saw it this way. It is a very emotional topic BUT what did east expect? Furloughed pilots brought nothing to the table. As for the last East guy on the list with over 18 yrs on property, did he actually expect to have his RELATIVE position change? Did he expect to come through this with 4 bars on his shoulder? Talk about a windfall! Like it or not it went relative seniority more or less.

I think much of the blame lies with the east merger committee. Not in so much as they didn't try their hardest but in the fact that DOH was a pipe dream from the beginning. The expectations of the East pilots were not managed well and they were led to believe that they could get DOH and capture some of their lost seniority at the expense of a another pilot group who were working for a growing carrier. That was just not going to happen. Someone on the east side should have been preparing the pilot group.

Now I read on the east messsage board of how guys are going to try to shut the company down so the west guys can suffer like they have. And that they should not vote on a new contract no matter what so the company has to operate the two airlines separately. And my favorite, decertify ALPA and reject the Arbitration Award. How short sighted is that? There are not too many jobs that pay 100k to an unemployed pilot that has been an FO all his career. It's time to get over it and move on. We are all lucky to be working.