AWA/ US Airways pilot seniority integration

[MCDU]

I think the America West pilots and the US Air pilots are both a great bunch.
I wish them well and I hope things will work out for both groups. At least they are both alpa and I hope what happend to the TWA folks will not happen during this merger. TWA pilots got really screwed by AA.

Marty

 

[m80drvr]

That from the guy that called awa guys drunks and the dregs of the aviation world. LOL

350
I might have agreed with you except before the merger AWA was taking airplanes, and in fact still is. Captain upgrade was 5 to 6 years and they were growing.

Airways was in bankrupcy for the second time with no more financing alternatives, and they were still shrinking, please don't count the e170 as growth. We all know that MDA was a commuter. No offense to the MDA pilots but that's what it was.
The overlying fact is that no one knows what will happen in arbitration, I think the Airways guys are playing a dangerous game demanding DOH and that recalls be slotted above ANY AWA pilot. I think the arbitrators ruling might surprise them.
I hope they (Both merger comittees) can work this out but I don't think it will happen.

 

[Carl S.]

U gets to keep flying, yet only wants to bone AWA pilots at all costs. Retirements, if there was no merger. U would be gone or greatly shrunk again and all those old FO would still be FO's, but no!!!!! I want to go ahead of the AWA pilots because I got screwed, so I have to get them screwed or else I'm not happy. Be glad you still have a job and are able to dream about screwing other pilots and get to collect a $48,000 pension that no AWA pilot will ever see(Oh wait, I forgot about that bonus) and want some first chance at upgrading over AWA pilots who are younger.

Happy Kwanzaa!

 

[Doug Parker]

.


Nevermind -

I'll be back in 6 months to talk about it...................



.

 

[JetMonkey]

These AAA Merger committee guys must be part of the hopefully small batch of radicals over there (we have ours too). Everyone I've meet so far from the east have been great, of course I've haven't discussed integration with any of them. I don't know the names of these merger committee boys but if I ever fly with any of them I'll definitely ask "what were you guys smoking"? :nuts:

 

[Swaayze]

Jeeeez, why so balled up about the U guys who earned pensions in the neighborhood of 6 figures actually getting a small portion of the money they were promised? What does that have to do with any of this merger stuff?

All y'all (that's plural Texan) just get over it. The arbitrator will figure it out. Everyone will be pissed. The furloughees will be at the bottom, and it won't matter much anyway because age 65 is coming and recalls won't happen for many more years.

Cheery enough for ya? Unfortunately I'm just trying to be realistic.

 

[aa73]

I think the America West pilots and the US Air pilots are both a great bunch.
I wish them well and I hope things will work out for both groups. At least they are both alpa and I hope what happend to the TWA folks will not happen during this merger. TWA pilots got really screwed by AA.

Marty

Apples to oranges.... While I agree that a significant number of TWA pilots got the shaft, you must realize that the AA/TWA deal was an asset acquisition (more like a debt acquisition) - and the AWA/USAir deal is a merger between both airlines. Even ALPA has different standards of integration for the two - one is called Merger policy, and the other is Fragmentation policy. If AA/TWA would have been a true merger, I suspect the APA would have given a straight ratio integration. But it wasn't.

I'd be careful depending on ALPA anyways - if you want historical precedent regarding asset acquisitions between two ALPA carriers, look no further than DAL/PanAm in '91, and look at what happened to the Pan Am pilots.

 

[aa73]

Before some TWA pilots jump down my throat, my above post is only meant to point out the fact that even between two ALPA carriers, an asset acquisition type deal (fragmentation policy) doesn't necessarily require that the pilots of the acquired carrier gain employment at the acquiring carrier - even though in past deals, the acquiring airlines have almost always taken at least some of the pilots. It is my understanding that APA used the historical precedent of the DAL/PanAm deal and implemented a lot of similar concepts. However, DAL only took some of the Pan Am pilots, whereas AA took the whole TWA pilot group.

OK - enough details. Bottom line- I hope you AWA/US guys and gals keep it professional, and by NO MEANS should you engage in the name calling and put downs the APA made famous during our deal. Immature to say the least - I did a lot of apologizing on behalf of my own union when I was based in STL.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

....and by NO MEANS should you engage in the name calling and put downs the APA made famous during our deal...

You wouldn't happen to have that list of put downs handy would you? I might need the wisdom of the APA's experienced workforce to help out my vocabulary.

I am, afterall, just a caveman.

 

[FR8mastr]

please don't count the e170 as growth. We all know that MDA was a commuter. No offense to the MDA pilots but that's what it was.
.

MDA a commuter? you need a reality check and quick! the AAA mec convinced themselves of that thinking " its a small airplane and I'm a superior large airplane flyer so the MDA thing is of no concern to me"
This "commuter" is directly replacing DC-9, F-100, F-28, 737-200. and BA 146 flying that was and still is ML flying. I sure hope I am just not getting the point you are trying to make. Because if you really believe what I quoted above, we will never get anything like a profession back.

 

[A350]

First, MDA was Mainline. If you don't like it, that is your right, but MDA was mainline on the mainline certificate. Those pilots were recalled to mainline, but under a C scale contract. You sure consider the 190 mainline, don't you? That is like calling the 757 a commuter craft and the 767 a mainline craft.

Further, if you think taking airplanes a few here and there makes you a growth junkie, that is your right.

BTW, no U pilot receives a $48,000 pension.....it is more like $28,000. And that is 6 figures less than it should have been. And further, what the hell does that have to do with the merger?

Better opt to get along with each other. Unfortunately, the last guy at Indy Air and the first guy are all in the same boat. No matter what your number ends up being, better bury the hatchet and get on with putting out a quality product. Otherwise, it won't matter whether you are a Captain, FO, junior or senior.

A350

 

[aa73]

You wouldn't happen to have that list of put downs handy would you? I might need the wisdom of the APA's experienced workforce to help out my vocabulary.

I am, afterall, just a caveman.

Kmart pilots, Hot dog vendors, to name a few. The arrogance was truly amazing.

 

[maru657]

AWA is still around because John McCain sold his soul for home town jobs. I suspect part of the deal with elements of the majority party was keeping US Air from total failure with the resultant thousands of angry voters on the street. That is part of what cost the bush 1 administration it's second chance.

 

[AA717driver]

TWA Dude--Sorry, I forgot, make that TWO Cacti's...

Actually, the one is a "native" AWA'er hired around '87 or '88. Former States West type. Blowhard. Backstabber. Slim... Oh well, if I say any more, I might as well give his name and SSN.

Take care, dude.TC

P.S.--How's married life treating you so far?

 

[BeCareful!]

Regarding growth, look at what has occured at PSA and with MDA over the past three years: Well over $1 billion invested in these entities, and all of it from U Group's financial maneuvering. It's not the kind of growth that pilots want, I know, but it's growth of the airline nontheless (not a windfall to Johnny O and the boys). And, that growth has taken place on the backs of U labor.

In other words, I think in terms of aricraft aquistions U has "grown" much more over the past three years. Unfortunately, management won big time by making sure those aircraft provided jobs that were low-paying. Either way, it was growth, it was just a different aircraft type being invested in; leave it to U management to figure out how to grow their system and screw the pilots at the same time And all the while, doing a great job of hiding the money.