MD80DRVR
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Posts
- 305
BeCareful! said:Hi, md80drvr and PHXFLYR,
Later
How did I get dragged into this???
MD80DRVR
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BeCareful! said:Hi, md80drvr and PHXFLYR,
Later
TWA Dude said:Well, I recall a few TWA types who thought they'd/we'd won the lottery when the AA buyout was announced. Funny how things didn't work out that way. In fact, it's funny in general how predictions for the future don't always pan out. It's certainly true that the demographics favor the younger AWA in the future but that's not the only consideration. As I've written a number of times, what about a reduction in force/furlough? Some form of shared pain is logical. A pure DOH integration puts the next 1500 or so furloughs purely from the AWA side. Your simplification of the issues does nobody any good.
BeCareful! said:Formula1,
I'm in the East. The "stapled" thing is the strong opinion of the frequent West posters here that furloughed pilots will (or should) be stapled. They believe it's their birthright to have a 1600 pilot furlough cushion below them plus a head start on the wild run up the seniority list that has mostly uEast retirements in front of them. Sad, the selfish attitudes displayed here.
Merry Christmas!
Well, as a practical matter I've not seen exactly what a relative seniority integration looks like and I'm not so sure one even exists. It is indeed a challenge to address expected career progression for both sides. I'll leave it at that.typhoonpilot said:I'm merely pointing out that seniority and career progression need to be protected on both sides and that the relative position argument favors AWA pilots over a 15 year UAIR pilot for the remainder of their very short career.
typhoonpilot said:I honeslty believe there is a workable solution. It will neither involve DOH or relative position and will be a complicated series of fences and protections. Smarter people than me are working on it and I'm sure they can come up with a solution.
TP
ash5855 said:I've stayed on the sideline for most of this debate and watched the mudslinging from afar. It seems as though TWA and Typhoon are atleast two who can look at the issues logically.
Before I state my views, I must let everyone know that I'm also a junior AWA pilot and will be looking at the situation from that perspective.
It seem to me that current U pilots are worried about the windfall that U attrition might bring junior AWA pilots while Junior AWA pilots (actually, almost all of them considering the huge differences in DOH) are worried about job security and fairness if there is a reduction in force.
I too believe that there probably is a middle ground both sides can eventually come to.
How about this:
First, The basis for the integration would be ratios based on equipment and seat or relative seniority. This would satisfy the major AWA gripe that a DOH type integration would put the majority of their pilots at the bottom and subject to the next round of furlough if this grand experiment should fail. Second, there would be very strict limits and restrictions to protect career expectations of the U pilots. Domicile fencing would protect bases, but most important of all, some kind of language insuring upgrades for former U pilots based on attrition. In other words, If there was 500 U retirements creating 500 upgrade opportunities than 500 pilots have rights to those positions.
Being a junior AWA pilot my career expaectations didn't include a 3-4 year upgrade due to your attrition. On the other hand it didn't include a bump to the bottom of your furlough list (DOH integration) in case this thing tanks.
I know that an arbitrator will most likely decide our fates but I believe, when reasonable people come together they can come to an agreement. Hopefully that is still possible here.
BeCareful! said:Hi, md80drvr and PHXFLYR,
PHX, I more or less put the stapling comment in my first post to appease your camp; let's face it, though, it's what you guys would like concerning the junior US Air guys (who are currently furloughed although many of us are serving the company as captains in CRJ's....an unprecedented situation in ALPA history, I believe.)
Please don't make me dig up the numerous posts from your guys here that blather all sorts of "to the bottom" and "stapling" remarks. It's all been you boys here on the ever entertaining flightinfo.com
Where you ever got the idea that your "stapling comment" is considered an appeasement to the AWA pilot group is beyond me. To blatantly come out and say that it what our pilot group wants is totally absurd,as are most of your posts on this webboard. What we were really hoping for was to hammer something out between the 2 merger committees at the negotiating table but I guess your team's call for DOH intergration and a permanent seat lock on all international flying INCLUDING the recently started service to HNL by AWA aircraft and crews put an end to any of that happening anytime soon. You guys never cease to amaze me.......
PHXFLYR
BeCareful! said:Formula1,
I'm in the East. The "stapled" thing is the strong opinion of the frequent West posters here that furloughed pilots will (or should) be stapled. They believe it's their birthright to have a 1600 pilot furlough cushion below them plus a head start on the wild run up the seniority list that has mostly uEast retirements in front of them. Sad, the selfish attitudes displayed here.
Merry Christmas!