Awa Merger

[Fly-n-hi]

I actually do not have a problem with the fence idea. Mostly because I believe that there are more USA guys who want to go west than there are AWA guys who want to go east.

I'm still suppoting the relative integration of the two active lists followed by any recalled furloughs at the bottom of the newly combined list.

Here's the problem: If we put some super long fences up, say 15 years, and in 3 years we need to hire pilots to fill vacancies in PHX or LAS who's gonna fill the vacancies? It will have to be new hires off the street, right? So will they be senior to the furloughs who haven't been recalled on the USA side? What if the east coast bases just continually shrink?

If those vacancies I just mentioned are filled by USA furlough recalls then there is absolutely no way they should be senior to me or any other AWA pilot.

Solution? Go with my integration plan and offer this to the USA furloughs: You can take the first opportunity to be recalled at any base. If you go to an USA base you will have fence protection for as long as the fence lasts. If you go to an AWA base you just go to the bottom of the list. And because I'm a nice guy I would allow these recalled furloughs to bid back across the fence once to get back to the east coast as vacancies opened up in the original USA system.

 

[PHXFLYR]

No problem, the advance team for this has been doing J4J at Mesa for a couple years.....RF

At the expense of how many Senior Mesa RJ F/O's........?


PHXFLYR

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Originally Posted by Filkster
No problem, the advance team for this has been doing J4J at Mesa for a couple years.....RF

I was one of them. It sucked.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

At the expense of how many Senior Mesa RJ F/O's........?


PHXFLYR

I was one of them. It sucked.

 

[Cactus73]

The latest AAA MEC updates finish with the following:

"Please remember we now have 1,574 pilots on furlough with approximately 400 pilots currently working at MDA or other Jets For Jobs carriers."

Just two weeks ago, they finished with:

"Please remember we now have 1,974 pilots on furlough."


So we now know the position of the AAA MEC in regards to you guys flying at J4J airlines.

Doug Parker was asked about this at his latest employee meeting and he stated that he considers them to be on the furloughed list, not a separate group.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Cactus 73


I think you are reading way too much into that statement. Those folks at J4J
are still on the AAA senority list,status shown as furloughed,therefore they will be a factor in the intergration.Most of your posts are pretty much spot on,but this one is pure flame bait. May I suggest you do your homework before posting.

PHXFLYR

 

[Cactus73]

Cactus 73


I think you are reading way too much into that statement. Those folks at J4J
are still on the AAA senority list,status shown as furloughed,therefore they will be a factor in the intergration.Most of your posts are pretty much spot on,but this one is pure flame bait. May I suggest you do your homework before posting.

PHXFLYR

PHXFLYR,

Maybe I came off the wrong way here, but this thread has turned into a furloughee battle ground.

I didn't make the above up. The above change in language concerned the AWA communications chair enough to make a statement about it. Reps I have talked to also noticed the change and believe that they may want to include these guys as active pilots - not furloughees. This change in language also concerned a pilot enough to ask Doug Parker about it at Wednesday's brown bag. Parker is very clear when it comes to furloughed vs. active status.

I didn't really do much homework, but I didn't just post this out of thin air either.

 

[Boeing747Driver]

The latest AAA MEC updates finish with the following:

"Please remember we now have 1,574 pilots on furlough with approximately 400 pilots currently working at MDA or other Jets For Jobs carriers."

Just two weeks ago, they finished with:

"Please remember we now have 1,974 pilots on furlough."


So we now know the position of the AAA MEC in regards to you guys flying at J4J airlines.

Doug Parker was asked about this at his latest employee meeting and he stated that he considers them to be on the furloughed list, not a separate group.

1574 is the total with 400 of the 1574 at a J4J airline. AAA never had 1974 furloughed. The 1574 is an adjusted number from the 1876 taking into consideration resignations and retirements.

 

[Cactus73]

1574 is the total with 400 of the 1574 at a J4J airline. AAA never had 1974 furloughed. The 1574 is an adjusted number from the 1876 taking into consideration resignations and retirements.

Thanks for the update. I was under the impression that there were 1900 or so on furlough and of these, 400 or so were at J4J airlines. 1574 is a better number - although that is still way too many pilots out of work and on the street.

Hopefully this industry can turn itself around.

 

[Crzipilot]

Blah, Blah blah....ya furlough battle ground. Whatever... Obviously the Jr. at AWA are pulling at straws, as the furlough number was adjusted to reflected those which have reached age 60/resigned/or deceased. I belive the original number was 1876. And the mention of the 400 or so, is the number of individuals that have taken a j4j position. Which was basically a flow back, in which most of us are flying and shown as ACTIVE on the AAA certificate, or flying for a wholly owned, which agreed to the J4J program, which created a CEL list consisting of all the WO pilots which now have the ability to flow UPWARDS to mainline. Ohhh wait..let me guess....the AWA want to cut all of them off to take advantage of the 1600-1900 retirements in the next 10 yrs or so??????
Yeah right... The furloughees deserve their position, as do the CEL pilots. These two groups are the ones that have paid the most out of this deal.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Blah, Blah blah....ya furlough battle ground. Whatever... Obviously the Jr. at AWA are pulling at straws, as the furlough number was adjusted to reflected those which have reached age 60/resigned/or deceased. I belive the original number was 1876. And the mention of the 400 or so, is the number of individuals that have taken a j4j position. Which was basically a flow back, in which most of us are flying and shown as ACTIVE on the AAA certificate, or flying for a wholly owned, which agreed to the J4J program, which created a CEL list consisting of all the WO pilots which now have the ability to flow UPWARDS to mainline. Ohhh wait..let me guess....the AWA want to cut all of them off to take advantage of the 1600-1900 retirements in the next 10 yrs or so??????
Yeah right... The furloughees deserve their position, as do the CEL pilots. These two groups are the ones that have paid the most out of this deal.

Paid the most of what???? I am now all for the 10 to 15 yr fence, you see that way those in the east will remain in the east and those of us out west will remain out west. Furlough s ucks no doubt about it but AWA has zero on furlough so give me a ligit reason why ANY AWA PILOT today should be bumped down to place you ahead of us????

WD.

 

[dually]

Oh trust me, it will work. Like I said. You just don't like it.

[What about you 20 year guys? So you've been there 20 years. Great. 20 years at U.S. Airways isn't worth a bag of crap right now. If your 20 years is so wonderful then why are you a junior FO?]

I don't care how long you've been there. I just care where you sit on the seniority list. If you are in the bottom 10% of you active list then you should be in the bottom 10% of the newly combined list.

Why you think that your 20 years entitles you to automatically be senior to me baffles me. Actually it doesn't baffle me. I can see that its just pure greed.

As far as the Arbitrator is concerned, yeah, he might go for the fence idea, as long as no one tells him that your own CEO, Lakefield, said that U.S. Airways was finished without this merger. Yes...he said that.

FYI: 20 years @ U can hold left seat in any base.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

FYI: 20 years @ U can hold left seat in any base.

It's 18yrs that can't hold it

WD.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

FYI: 20 years @ U can hold left seat in any base.

FYI: I don't care how long you've been there. Am I supposed to say to myself "Wow, this guy has been there for 20 years!!!"

All I care about is your relative seniority.

And another FYI: I'm quoting one of your guys who mentioned 20 year FO's.

Quote by 321 Busdriver: "If your idea of "fair" is to put a 20 year F/O at the 70% mark at U the same relative position at the combined airline, then you need to rethink your position."

When it comes to integration I don't care about your longevity. I only care about your seniority. You do understand those are totally seperate from each other, right? If you're a 39 year U pilot and you are in the bottom 10% of the U list you should go to the bottom 10% of the combined list along with the bottom 10% AWA pilot.

You want fences? Fine! We'll put up fences...after we do a relative seniority integration and establish that furloughs get recalled to the bottom of the newly combined list. This way in 15 years or whatever when all the furlough recalls have upgraded on the east coast they will be able to remain as CA's as long as they don't try to bid over to the west coast.

It matters to me because I will be here (assuming the company lasts) for alot more than 15 years to come.

 

[dually]

Many FOs are 20 years plus for QOL.
I was just trying to get the facts out there and did
not intend to upset anybody. I know its a very stressful period.
I have no horse in this race, resigned long ago.
Best of luck to all of you.