Atp Circ Apch Vmc Only

[Turtle21]

VFR does not mean visual flight - it means visual flight RULES. There are many IFR maneuvers that are conducted visualy that are still IFR not VFR.

The circling approach is a visual maneuver conducted on an IFR approach. It is not a VFR (visual flight rules) maneuver - and as stated previously is often conducted in weather that is less then that required for VFR operations

Bingo. There appears to be a misunderstanding of equating VMC as VFR. A circling approach is IFR (and maybe IMC down to the MDA/MAP) and the last portion is VMC but still under IFR.

A "contact approach" is another type of VMC approach based on visual references but remains under IFR.

 

[lineflyer1]

A friend got his circle restriction removed at CAE in DEN. Involved a half day of GS and a shared sim session. Two guys, first half of a regular 4 hr sim block was training, then the examiner stepped in the box for the one each maneuver ride while they swapped seats. This was in the Airbus BTW.

I won't quote the price he told me as I don't know if it was a special deal, but shared with another guy it wasn't as much as some of the other posts here.

And yes, they have an approved short course for just this situation. He needed it for overseas work. Now the Asians are questioning his temporary certificate!

Most US airline earned type ratings will have this restriction for the cost savings reason and the wash out rate was too high before the rule change. There goes the conspiracy theory!

I've got 8 types and only have the restriction on the A320 one. In the Gulfstream (my last one) it was a FAA part 61 ride and you bet your posterior we circled! LOC 27 circle 18R in MEM. With the jepp plate on the nav display and the little green airplane flying around the chart it was the easiest circle I've ever done! Gotta love that planeview cockpit. I really miss it...

My type ride instructor/examiner said the same thing about people screwing it up. But then again when you are hiring guys with less tahn 1000 hours thats what happens.

 

[Spooky 2]

Once the circle commences, you must have the runway in sight the entire time on the approach or it is mandatory MAP.

I'm back! I guarntee you will fail that checkride in my school house if you leave the MDA before haing the runway in sight. Maybe you should come over here with that lne of thought and erase all the failures that have ocurred for doing just that. Back tomorrow with more food for thought.

 

[pilotyip]

What?

I'm back! I guarntee you will fail that checkride in my school house if you leave the MDA before haing the runway in sight. Maybe you should come over here with that lne of thought and erase all the failures that have ocurred for doing just that. Back tomorrow with more food for thought.

Of course you can not leave MDA until in a position to make a normal approach to the runway. And you can not even start the circle if you don't have the RW in sight at the Missed Approach Point. I think we are saying the same thing. I have given over 100 121 PC's, with the Feds observing at least 30-40 doing the circle for initial type rating s in the DA-2. I feel pretty comfortable with the way I conducted my checks.

 

[Spooky 2]

Of course you can not leave MDA until in a position to make a normal approach to the runway. And you can not even start the circle if you don't have the RW in sight at the Missed Approach Point. I think we are saying the same thing. I have given over 100 121 PC's, with the Feds observing at least 30-40 doing the circle for initial type rating s in the DA-2. I feel pretty comfortable with the way I conducted my checks.

YIP I'm on the same page as you. I cannot figure out where anyone can come up with the idea of leaving the MDA before having the runway insight. There is a period of time downwind when you have passed abeam the end of the runway and are just turning base where you may not have the runway in sight and that's where guys screw up the approach by leaving the MDA without having the runway enviorment in sight. More tomorrow as I reference the exact language. We need to get this guy on our page before he kills him self and his pax!!

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Yeah, as far as I know the only time on a circle when you can lose sight of the airport during a circling maneuver is when aircraft geometry obscures your view. Which would coincide with the above also.

 

[dc8dude]

I had to get this removed on my A320 type before I could work in China. Used Flight Safety in Denver...cost $829 and took about 20 minutes of sim time. They will make a better deal if you get a few people. China will not accept temporary certificate so you have to wait for the permanent....patience required!

 

[Ameriagle]

Uh, no. We have a 1000-3 limitation like almost everyone else. If you work for us, please refer to Ops Spec C075 and educate yourself.

Hey Beech-Slapped, quit busting my b*lls! I'm well aware of what Ops Spec C075 says and I understand what our limitation is, thanks! Thats not what I was addressing! I was addressing a post that implies the circle procedure is not relevant in today's airline environment. It is at Allegiant. We have various airports in our system, as you well know, that are limited in available approaches. In some cases a circle procedure may be the most suitable option for getting the airplane on the ground! I have had to do it several times in the last year. KSCK with winds favoring 11 is one example of where the manuever is relevent. Hope that clears up the confusion!

 

[AC560]

I cannot figure out where anyone can come up with the idea of leaving the MDA before having the runway insight.

I would guess they read 91.175, a circling approach can be straight in it doesn't necessarily imply a circle to land.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I would guess they read 91.175, a circling approach can be straight in it doesn't necessarily imply a circle to land.

What, what, what!? You still need to have the runway environment IN SIGHT prior to leaving MDA.

If the approach is for example a VOR-A where there is only circling minima listed, there is nothing to prohibit leaving MDA to land straight in if you HAVE THE RUNWAY ENVIRONMENT IN SIGHT. Otherwise, you can't just be flying around all will-nilly in the clouds or fog because... "oh, I think the runway is down here somewhere, I'll just start down now."

When people try feeling around for airports in IMC with airplanes they usually don't find it.