ASA VP FLT OPs tries to scare the pilots

[~~~^~~~]

Why can't we put it up to a vote?

Well, they do surveys and the scary thing is - ALPA's opener on pay is right what I've been saying when they ask. At least I've gotten smart enough to say SCOPE is priority #1 and Pay is #2 and I don't give a rats a$$ about the Company having to pay for Flica.

 

[IFLYASA]

that you childree, dang, you're everywhere

LMAO !!!!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

So the big question is, is this a bluff or not? Will Skywest Inc. actually shrink ASA to punish us for not being competitive enough?

I personally can't believe that Skywest had previously made a firm decision (with a big announcement) on sending the 900's to ASA based on their assumption that the pilots would have agreed to a concessionary contract by now,

Classic Carrot and Stick. But it is not a bluff. Atkin doesn't bluff (doesn't have to - they are his airplanes and we got no scope with Skywest)

...an even bigger question is, how can we stop management from doing this to us again and again in the future? ("Everybody needs to take a 20% paycut this time, or else we take xxx more airplanes away and give them to Skywest.")

I think our primary contract negotiating goal needs to be scope. And at this point, I'm thinking the best scope includes merging at least the ASA/Skywest seniority lists. Anyone else with me? Any better ideas?

You are exactly right!

 

[IFLYASA]

COOL!!! 900's for 50 seat pay!!! I can't wait!

Come on guys... in general, us at SKYW are NOT happy about getting 900's on the property especially when they're used to whipsaw us against each other. In my opinion, our pilot group made a really poor decision voting through what was supposed to be an 18 month agreement. Just for the record, I voted down that TA and knew we were setting a precedent we didn't want to set. Here we are almost four years later and nothing's changed.

Personally, I wish you guys all the best and support you 100%.

"If only all of your pilots had your stance. Thank You."

 

[~~~^~~~]

If we were the only game in town, we could possibly force higher costs on mainline carriers, but all of us know this is an extraordinarily competitive business. Our Delta Connection Agreement (DCA) requires that by year three (2008), we must have average costs of all DCI carriers and that by year five (2010), we must have the second lowest costs of all DCI carriers.

Most sincerely,

Charlie Tutt
Vice President, Flight Operations​

Guys - I know some of you, especially ATR driver - have long been critical of my position that small jet carriers should be allowed to enter into scope agreements with mainline carriers. But if ALPA had not taken he position outlined in this letter, we would not be in this "extraordinarily competitive business" where the difference between a successful airline and an airplane on the path to sudden destruction is whether or not the pilot is paid as a professional.

http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

Guys we are in this position because ALPA put us here. There is no other reason.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I hate the union and SkyWest managment could feel good knowing that I would vote no on any drive for alpa.

That's why we don't want or need you here!

 

[wms]

CRJ 700

3RD Quarter 2005​

​

ASA SKYW CMR

Operating Data

Revenue Passenger Miles (mil.)
593.36 514.58 399.01
Available Seat Miles (mil.)
746.15 655.28 554.85
Load Factor
79.52% 78.53% 71.91


Revenue Miles (000)
10,659 9,783 7,926
Revenue Hours
24,253 22,666 19,385
Block Hours
30,180 28,551 24,331
Aircraft Days
2,028 3,126 2,366
Revenue Departures
15,584 15,162 14,672
Gallons of Fuel (000)
14,367 14,103 11,601




Financial Data (000)

Flight Crew Expense
$9,730 $9341 $8,227
Fuel Expense
$27,127 $29,633 $22,199
Total Flying Expense
$38,953 $39,737 $31,264


Direct Maint. - Airframe
$4,331 $1,715 $3,391
Direct Main. - Engines
$888 $3,530 $317
Total Direct Maintenance
$5,219 $5,245 $3,708
Maintenance Burden
$693 $0 $1,462


Depreciation
$7,012 $2608 $6,059
Aircraft Rent
$1,033 $11,984 $255


Total Aircraft Operating Expense
$53,112 $59,574 $42,748


Operating Cost per Block Hour ($)

Flight Crew Cost
$322 $327 $338
Fuel Cost
$899 $1038 $912
Other Costs
$69 $27 $34


Total Flying Cost
$1,291 $1392 $1285


Direct Main. - Airframe
$144 $60 $139
Direct Main. - Engines
$29 $124 $13
Total Direct Maintenance
$173 $184 $152
Maintenance Burden
$23 $0 $60


Total Maintenance Costs
$196 $91 $212


Depreciation
$232 $91 $249
Aircraft Rent
$34 $420 $10


Total Cost per Block Hour
$1,760 $2087 $1,757


Ratios and Operating Indicators

Cost per Available Seat Mile
7.12 9.09 7.70
Flight Crew Cost per ASM
1.30 1.43 1.48
Cost per Aircraft Mile
$5 $6 $5
Daily Utilization
14.9 9.1 10.3
Average Speed
353 343 326
Gallons of Fuel per Block Hour
476 494 477
Fuel Cost per Gallon
$1.89 $2.10 $1.91
Average Stage Length
684 645 540
Average Departures per Day
8 5 6
Cost per Departure
$3,408 $3,929 $2914

Data Derived from DOT Form 41

Overall ASA is cheaper, even on the 700's. How about a little something for the effort. No deal until all ASA employees and mgmt take cuts.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

FL990, It is not about overall company profits per quarter. It is about DL going to DCI and saying, I need a 70 seat a/c on this route for the lowest price what can you do. If ASA is not competative, they will move on a not think another thing of it. They are not going to say well ACEY, I like you and you are cheaper on the 50 seater, I'll lose potential revenue and downgrade.

As far as CR2 rates, yes I agree that current contract yearly increases are required.

It's all about business...

 

[COOPERVANE]

COOPERATIVE,

do you think delta gives a CRAP what ASA's costs are if they are getting a good price?? or to put it another way, when you go to the grocery store, do you care how much kroger paid for the box of cookies??? NOOOOOOO

All you care about is what YOUUUU pay for the cookies!!

Our company has plenty of room to come down on there prices and still be competative. With 13.1% margins (which are over 2% higher than the number 2 airline, which by the way, WASN'T skywest), they can lower prices to remain competative, still be profitable, and still pay there bills (us).

The problem is, when ASA profit margins go down, that means there bonuses go down, and why would management want to give up there money when they can sucker us into giving up ours?? Because that is exactly the situation...THAT IS REALITY...THE REST IS JUST LIES AND THREATS!!!

You bring up some good points. I truly hope you are right.

 

[goahead]

How about our great new friend ex chief pilot that is posting BS on our union web site..... So you fu_k us for how many years and now you want to be our bud so you can get your final 6 months of pay and be gone. It's senior di_ks like that that make me want to vote hell yea. Fuc-in fag.

 

[hmmurdock]

I'm with you on this one. Every other airline is facing pay cuts and ALPA is asking for a 17% raise over the next three years for the entire pilot group. PLus other $$. Lets be conservative and say that the average pilot here makes 60K. A 17% increase across the board is about $19m. That comes out of the whopping $41m profit. Regardless of what our DCA says, that is not good business. We run on small profit margins and cutting those in half is pretty stupid. Time for ALPA to get their collective head out of their A$$ and be REASONABLE. Pay cuts are not reasonable either but they are a hell of a lot closer that ALPA.

Gator and 79%...remember that the ALPA proposal is just that, a proposal. The union has to start somewhere and then both sides meet somewhere in the middle. I also keep telling you guys to not forget the Horizon payrates. Our current 70 seat rates are not at all out of line. But asking 70 FO's for 13.5 % is a massive cut and not to mention in extremely poor taste. Do not forget, our union negotiators know what they are doing. They know what the pilot group feels is important because we let them know via surveys,P2P, and speaking directly with union members. Have a little patience and show some confidence in your reps.

 

[Tomct]

Hmmm, good post!

FL990 you hit the nail right on the head. Smoke and Mirrors! I am NOT going to GIVE IN on anything!

Skywst pilots....the ball is in your courts. You guys better realize that he is going to come to ya'll NEXT!! Vote in that UNION next month and G R DONE!!!

Superpooter, I believe that JO is looking for a good lackey and you would surely fit under his desk! By the way, Frank Lorenzo is probably your dad, RIGHT! YOU are a DISGRACE and I hope that you cross the line, you may end up with a few lumps and maybe even find HOFFA!!

79% you had better get a hold of yourself and stop this "self-pitty" BS!! That is EXACTLY what mgmnt wants and you better WAKE UP and take the stand with us, or YOU will be getting a paycut as well as stay in the same seat! Yeah, NOT FUN!! Get it together "STEEL MAN!!!!!"

 

[Ultra Grump]

The fractionals just got a whole lot more appealing!

Don't come to NetJets. Your wussy attitude wouldn't go well here.

 

[gator_hater]

Gator and 79%...remember that the ALPA proposal is just that, a proposal. The union has to start somewhere and then both sides meet somewhere in the middle. I also keep telling you guys to not forget the Horizon payrates. Our current 70 seat rates are not at all out of line. But asking 70 FO's for 13.5 % is a massive cut and not to mention in extremely poor taste. Do not forget, our union negotiators know what they are doing. They know what the pilot group feels is important because we let them know via surveys,P2P, and speaking directly with union members. Have a little patience and show some confidence in your reps.

It is still BS. Four years into this and everone is tired of this crap. Someone needs to act like an adult walk in and put an offer on the table they can live with. This is the equivilant to a week long debate at the car dealership. Someone needs to act like an adult and move this crap along...in my view, just like four years ago, it has shifted from the company to ALPA again dragging their heels. Give us something to vote on!

 

[gator_hater]

I AGREE

13.1% profit margins...$85MIL+ profits

Except for the fact that it was $42m for the last 9 months in 2005. That is also based on opperating profit not total profit. It still remains that our MEC is asking for HALF of that in pilot raises. Don't get me wrong, we ARE worth it and I'd like the $$ but that is not good business.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

I don't know about you, but this Kool-Aid is "working" on me...I'm scared.

I'll take concessions...anything......just do it....show me where to sign.

I already told my 'Riddle buddies I'd be flying a '900 by October.....don't make me look stupid.

And I ordered "CRJ9-PLT" plates for my BMW 323i that my parents bought me when I passed the first set of exams.

And that chick in the bar....what's she gonna do when she finds out I'm a liar?

Help!

 

[jegermeister]

Liar, liar pants on fire! How can Charlie say that it's our fault, when it's really his fault. And for all you kids that don't want a better contract, reach down and act act like you have a pair......remember full pay to the last day!

I'm so tired of hearing hearing this crap. I heard it at ALG, now again. For those of you that believe it, wake up. And for those of you who still think we're in a position to strong arm management, ask our union brothers in the steel industry how well they did.

We did well in section 13, lets call it draw and move on. Otherwise we're F*cked.

For those of you that can't write an intelligent response, feel free to bring on the personal acts, it seems to be your only counter arguement.

PS Joe M. You've been right on, for a while now.

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

You just dont get it

Well, to be devils advocate......IF what Tutt says is true, ASA is going to fuc%ing suck a$$ to work at! Junior Captains will go back to FO, Senior FO's will NEVER upgrade, and Junior FO's will be furloughed! Don't forget, the ATR's will be gone next year, and 13 or more 700's and one base closure! Not what I signed up for, thats for sure. I'm not sure why we think they won't do this. Calling their bluff is walking on really thin ice! Why won't they give the 900's to Skywest??? THEY FLY THEM FOR 50 SEAT RATES!!!!!! I'm not saying we should, at ASA.....but, ALPA is definitely asking for too much! Read the open sections email. We need to prioritize. If keeping 700 pay is priority number 1, then lets drop rigs and a funded retirement. Lets drop the 50 seater increases a bit. If rigs is the #1 issue, then lets come down on 70 seat pay. I'm all about getting whats fair, and I aint no management kool-aid drinker, however, I just don't see us being almost 25% higher in pay on the 700 than industry average, which is about what ALPA is asking for, and keeping those planes. If you think we will, you don't understand todays Regional Lift Provider environment! Who decided this? I was never 'polled' on what I think 700 pay should be. Lets get back in there, and compromise and come to an agreement so we dont go the way of ACA/Indy Air.

Think about it from a managers point of view. One of the last things they are worried about is pilot pay. They are not going to win or lose a bid because a pilot makes $5 more per hour. The reason they come after the pilots so much is because they know pilots will cave. There is no easier place to get money from then the pilots.

 

[Texx]

lets hurry up an strike so we can destroy this company so I can go look for a job without a selfish pilotgroup.

That's the problem with you. It's all about you. Selfish, self centered and I would bet that you're just a blast to live with.

 

[Texx]

Hey ASA Alpa snobs let me ask you a question.
Is a 13% pay increase on 30 airplanes worth 300 of your fellow pilots jobs?

If you have such a problem with this why don't you go into the crew lounge in ATL and have an face to face talk with all the pilots.

I didn't think you would. No guts no glory Junior.