ASA VP FLT OPs tries to scare the pilots

[atlcrjdriver]

Cush, I think you may have seen the light, well maybe.

no they made the pay rates in line with every other 70 seat operator. it just happens that all of them (except horizon) have taken pay cuts

You can only pay any group what the industry will support. DL NW USair UAL have all seen the light to stay in business. A 70 is a 70 no matter what the paint job is, so how can you justify taking our wages over the top. Our salary must be in-line with our competators or we die.

If Pizza Hut offers a slice of supreme for 3.25 Dominoes has that exact same slice for 1.25, where are you go?

Fly Safe...

 

[cushman_500]

no you are the one not understanding, if we are making money, why do we need to cut pay.

 

[XJETDriver]

What BS...Good luck guys

 

[socony_air]

Cush, I think you may have seen the light, well maybe.



You can only pay any group what the industry will support. DL NW USair UAL have all seen the light to stay in business. A 70 is a 70 no matter what the paint job is, so how can you justify taking our wages over the top. Our salary must be in-line with our competators or we die.

If Pizza Hut offers a slice of supreme for 3.25 Dominoes has that exact same slice for 1.25, where are you go?

Fly Safe...

That is the most flawed analogy I've ever seen. Did they not offer a Logic 101 at GA Southern or what? If Pizza Hut can consistantly sell their pizza at $3.25, & still have a 13% profit margin - Like we do at ASA, then who the hell cares what Dominoes is up too??? Besides, if Pizza Hut does have to cut their prices to compete - do they ask the dough flippers for a pay cut??? Of course not.

Look, here is what I know: I am not willing to do this job for a dime less than I'm doing it for now. I will not do it for $1.00 less so that you can take your best shot at leaving a year earlier (good luck, by the way). Furthermore, as I will not work for less, I cannot reasonably expect anybody else here who gets the same treatment from management that I've experienced over the last five+ years to do so either (ie 70pilots, IP's, FO's, etc.). Why should we? This company is NOT losing money like those your keep mentioning (DL, NW, USair) - what about that is so confusing for you?

Now, does our MEC need to bend on some of our current positions? Well, of course - and I'm sure they have every intention of doing so as long as the Company is willing to bend as well. Unfortunately, whomever is calling the shots is going to call our hand & test our group will. This strike vote is critical. What you are doing here is harmful to our cause & detrimental to our bargaining position. The MEC will meet them in the middle when the time is right. Now is not the time.

You need to get on board with this vote and realize that it is your only chance to voice your opinion that more bargaining is needed. Your NO vote will be a vote to accept whatever Mgt. offers & they will NOT thank you for your sacrifice. They will simply up their profit margin to 14%, collect their bonuses w/ your raise & high five each other on their way to cash their checks. If you've been here any length of time - you should know this by now.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Sconoy, never heard of a course called logic 101 but how about business ethics? In the above example, how long do think it will be b4 Pizza Hut lowers its rate in order to compete and retake its share of the marketplace. Or, they can stay hardball, say screw Dominoes and watch its profits deteriorate as they loose customers.

This marketplace is fluid and you must adjust with it. I am not saying give up the store but compete. Once the marketplace will support it then we can renegotiate for a new rate.

 

[MXAV8R]

COLD HARD NUMBERS - Yet ASA management wants us to LOWER our "HIGH" pilot cost????

From another thread:

CRJ 700 3rd Quarter 2005
OPERATING DATA ASA SKYW COMAIR
Revenue Passenger Miles 593.36 514.58 399.01
Available Seat Miles 746.15 655.28 554.85
Load Factor 79.52% 78.53% 71.91%

Revenue Miles 10,659 9,783 7,926
Revenue Hours 24,253 22,666 19,385
Block Hours 30,180 28,551 24,331
Aircraft Days 2,028 3,126 2,366
Revenue Departures 15,584 15,162 14,672
Gallons of Fuel 14,367 14,103 11,601

FINANCIAL DATA
Flight Crew Expense $9,730 $9,341 $8,227
Fuel Expense $27,127 $29,633 $22,199
Total Flying Expense $38,953 $39,737 $31,264

Direct Maint. - Airframe $4,331 $1,715 $3,391
Direct Main. - Engines $888 $3,530 $317
Total Direct Maintenance $5,219 $5,245 $3,708
Maintenance Burden $693 $0 $1,462

Depreciation $7,012 $2,608 $6,059
Aircraft Rent $1,033 $11,984 $255

Total Aircraft Operating Expense $53,112 $59,574 $42,748

OPERATING COST PER BLOCK HOUR

FLIGHT CREW COST $322 $327 $338

Fuel Cost $899 $1038 $912
Other Costs $69 $27 $34

TOTAL FLYING COST $1,291 $1,392 $1,285

Direct Main. - Airframe $144 $60 $139
Direct Main. - Engines $29 $124 $13
Total Direct Maintenance $173 $184 $152
Maintenance Burden $23 $0 $60

Total maintenance cost $196 $91 $249

Depreciation $232 $91 $212
Aircraft Rent $34 $420 $10

TOTAL COST PER BLOCK HOUR $1,760 $2,087 $1,757


RATIOS AND OPERATING
INDICATORS


COST PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE 7.12 9.09 7.70

FLIGHT CREW COST PER ASM 1.3 1.43 1.48

COST PER AIRCRAFT MILE $5 $6 $5


Daily utilization 14.9 9.1 10.3
Avg. Speed 353 343 326
Gallons of fuel per block hour 476 494 477
Fuel Cost per Gallon $1.89 $2.10 $1.91
Average Stage Length 684 645 540
Avg. Departures per day 8 5 6

COST PER DEPARTURE $3,408 $3,929 $2,914



Data derived from DOT form 41


This is just for the 70, so it gets more profitable on the 50.
__________________
FIGHT ON!!

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Also, it is said to many times that why take a cut when ASA is making so much money. The bulk of ASA flying is on the CR2 which pays less than industry standard. ALPA has recognized this and so has company which is great. But answer this: How can you adjust our mother load up to standard w/o also adjusting the CR7 while maintaining a profit margin?

 

[cushman_500]

your logic is flawed because the situations are not analogous. this situation would be analogous if you said this:

pizza hut and dominos are offering the pizza for $1.24 and a $1.25 respectively. pizza hut is making record profits, but they want paycuts from their cooks saying that they aren't competitive enough. what should the cooks do? should they take a paycut and help the leaders of the company make more money or should they refuse and get what they are worth?

 

[MXAV8R]

OPERATING COST PER BLOCK HOUR FOR THE 70

FLIGHT CREW COST ASA $322 SKW $327 CMR $338

What part of this do you not understand atlcrjdriver??

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Those numbers are great, now rerun it with a 9.0% raise over current rates and tell me what you get. Again, don't give up the store just bring the rates for all fleets in line to what industry will support.

And no Cush they would't ask min wage labor for a pay cut. The profit from increased marketshare would cover operating cost.
The cost of doing business...

 

[cushman_500]

well, last i checked a cook probably makes as much as i do, so if they wouldn't ask them for a paycut why should they ask me

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Cush, I would guess you are at least a CR7 FO, so if a cook at pizza hut makes ~38/h to push doe than more power to him...

 

[Stifler's Mom]

After reading that POS letter, I'll vote for just about anything as long as it means that BL, CT and the rest of the buffoons in the GO are given their walking papers.

I bet those guys kick puppies too.

 

[cushman_500]

you and i both know that it is 38 an hour for when i fly, i seem to remember doing a lot of other work that i don't get paid for, plus all of the time i sit in hotels and airports waiting and doing nothing

 

[twott driver]

Tell them to get fcuked.

All part of the game boys, no surprise, and certainly not something to get ones panties in a knot about. They're going to do what they're going to do. $5 an hour in pilot costs is not going to be the deciding factor in aircraft placement.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Cush, I would guess you are at least a CR7 FO, so if a cook at pizza hut makes ~38/h to push doe than more power to him...

Apparently you don't understand the difference between pay per flight hour and pay for every minute from the time you start to the time your day is over??

 

[socony_air]

Apparently you don't understand the difference between pay per flight hour and pay for every minute from the time you start to the time your day is over??

Unfortunately, that is just one thing on a long list of what this guy doesn't understand. I have a hard time believing that anyone who is as legitimately thick as he is pretending to be, could make it in the 121 envirionment. Lucky for us all that he will be "outta here" as soon as he gets that golden 1000.

 

[Tomct]

Okay Jegerman, we take what they offer and then what? They go to skywst for cuts, then come back to us and it just keeps going. Apparently you are not looking at the cost per mile that hve been posted atleast 2 times in this thread. WE DO NOT NEED A PAY CUT!!!! When are you guys going to figure this out? You are all freaking out for nothing! We expected this to happen....CALM DOWN!!! Oh yeah, no raise for 4 years, take what they offer and then a paycut for another 4 years all the while being the MOST PROFITABLE carrier! Yeah....that makes GOOD SENSE! YGBSM!

atlcrj, you are absolutely KILLING me man. Cut the crap. YOU KNOW that his was going to happen and hey....LOOK AT THE NUMBERS that have been posted. We Don't NEED A PAY CUT!! Your analogy is jacked up. 3.25 compared to 1.25. Yeah right! It is more like 1.25 1.30. US being the 1.25 in this scenario! Look at the numbers!! We ARE THE CHEAPEST!!!

 

[blueridge71]

We are approaching a record for the longest open negotiations in history. Maybe we need to write our Senator and Congressmen (forget McKinney) to take a hard look at the RLA.....

Actually Commie McKinney would probably be one that we could count on to come out against The Man and Corporate Greed. If she could turn it into an anti-Bush thing, I'll bet that she'd even carry a picket sign, if she wasn't busy assaulting a cop somewhere.

Originally Posted by 79%N1
I care, because......
A. If they take the SLC 700's and dont replace them, my 5-6 year upgrade turns into a 8-10 year upgrade.
B. When the SLC 700's leave, I will be bumped back to the 50 seater.....thus giving me the same dam# paycut the company is proposing I take anyway!!!!

All the more reason to hold out for decent pay. If I'm going to be an FO halfway to retirement, then I need to make a living.

To heck with going back to franks and beans to buy an upgrade that may never come anyway.

The airplanes will go wherever JA wants them regardless of how the pilots vote.

 

[jstyle13]

Enough of this crap! When do we vote already??? Where do I check yes for a strike authorization???

 

[blueridge71]

Also, it is said to many times that why take a cut when ASA is making so much money. The bulk of ASA flying is on the CR2 which pays less than industry standard. ALPA has recognized this and so has company which is great. But answer this: How can you adjust our mother load up to standard w/o also adjusting the CR7 while maintaining a profit margin?

[ SARCASM ALERT. ]

Cool. When they transfer all of Skywest's 50s over here, I'll make captain really quick!

After all, aren't we all about flying with the cheapest hourly rates?

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireBlue...guys like atl and kooter are the ones that need to WAKE UP!! This is our time to make a stand! Give me the VOTE!! YES FOR ME!!!

 

[asayankee]

I got a question for everybody.....If we have the some of the industry's lowest costs for 50 seat flying, then how come our stellar management hasn't been able to secure any new flying for us? Surely there's somebody out there who could use some cheap feed.

Perhaps management isn't that savvy? That's just my take on it though! Instead of going out and working to secure new multi-million dollar flying contracts, they're trying to nickle-and-dime the labor group. Great move guys.

 

[Tomct]

That should show you yankee that they really don't care about our pilot group. They only care about themselves and NOT anyone else!!!

 

[capt. megadeth]

That should show you yankee that they really don't care about our pilot group. They only care about themselves and NOT anyone else!!!

You need proof that a company doesn't care about their pilot group? No airline (except maybe SWA) gives a crap about their pilot group. That is a no brainer.

 

[av8er2]

No pay cuts!!!!! I will vote NO and be glad to do something else if this place can't treat the pilots like professionals and not a liability!

The race to the bottom stops at ASA!

What balls it takes for a profitable company to ask the pilots to make a wage that can't even support a family.

 

[ReportCanoa]

In this situation, what do you do:
Option A; you plain and simply back up off her
Option B; you hit it just a little bit softer,
Option C; you take it out and put it in her .....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The race to the bottom stops at ASA!

Now that's funny.... The race will continue, with or without us.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is insulting to ASA pilots and every pilot group out there.

Thanks to all the previous pilot groups who fell for the same crap and started this fall, and helped to create the current "market".

Including the NWA pilots who just agreed to fly 78 seaters for less than we are CURRENTLY flying 70 seaters for. Including the mainline pilots at USAir, United, and DAL who have started to undercut regional rates to "recapture" the flying. When you say they "fell for the same crap", you mean COMPETITION. Competition is a bitch and is largely incompatible with collective bargaining especially if members of the same union can compete with each other

Thanks to our local ASA pilot named Joe Merchant/JB who fuels this fire and I am sure helped ASA management to shape the latest scare tactic, by posting so often on this and the ALPA webboards.

Thanks for the credit Medeco, but I didn't have anything to do with it. I don't like it anymore than you do, but just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can call it a scare tactic if it makes you feel better, I call it reality. If you want to find out who is flaiming the "competitive fire", look no further than ALPA. In the past 5 years, ALPA and APA scope are responsible for the creation of 5 more alter-ego carriers with lower costs than we currently have.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I AGREE

13.1% profit margins...$85MIL+ profits

Our net profit margin and net profits are nowhere near these numbers. Our net profit margin is roughly a third of what it was in 1998, and SKYW net profit margin numbers are going down year over year. If you combine this with the fact that we only have a profit if we win contracts with the majors we feed, and the fact that the current ALPA proposal would all but wipe out any profits we do make, can you start to see the problem?