ASA VP FLT OPs tries to scare the pilots

[NoR * CaL]

None of the ALPAites have answered my question, so I will state it again.

Why can't we put it up to a vote?

If you actually listened to your P2P reps, you might come to understand how the process works....

 

[FL990]

What a plesant surprise to open up flica and see this CRAP!!!!

Howin the HELL can he possibly say that we are not competative NOW when we have the highest profit margins in the industry!!!!

If we are uncompetative, then lower the price and profit margins will come down to industry averages.

I am tired of all this crap about how our costs are out of line with industry averages when our PROFIT MARGINS are out of line with industry averages. They want everything to be average but our profit margins, which they want to be way above average!!! WHY?? BECAUSE THEY GET PAID BONUSES OFF OF PROFIT MARGINS AND IF THOSE LOWER TO INDUSTRY AVERAGE, THERE PAY GOES DOWN!!!!!

I am sick of this!!! Take the 700's, 900's, who cares. I won't work for free. And when you take them, lets see if your argument holds true, cause if it does, we will quickly become the largest 50 seat operator in the US!!! NO MORE THREATS, TAKE'M ALL BUT I AM NOT WORKING FOR LESS!!!

 

[79%N1]

I care, because......
A. If they take the SLC 700's and dont replace them, my 5-6 year upgrade turns into a 8-10 year upgrade.
B. When the SLC 700's leave, I will be bumped back to the 50 seater.....thus giving me the same dam# paycut the company is proposing I take anyway!!!!

And all you Junior 700 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you get displaced to the 50 seater.
And you Junior 50 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you go back to the freakin right seat!!! Enjoy the whiz wheel and weight and balance forms. See ya on the walk around. When will you guys see, we are way above those we are competing with on these 700's. Why is it a bluff of JA to say they will take them away? Then everyone gets a big paycut!

 

[jehtplane]

Well, to be devils advocate......IF what Tutt says is true, ASA is going to fuc%ing suck a$$ to work at! Junior Captains will go back to FO, Senior FO's will NEVER upgrade, and Junior FO's will be furloughed! Don't forget, the ATR's will be gone next year, and 13 or more 700's and one base closure! Not what I signed up for, thats for sure. I'm not sure why we think they won't do this. Calling their bluff is walking on really thin ice! Why won't they give the 900's to Skywest??? THEY FLY THEM FOR 50 SEAT RATES!!!!!! I'm not saying we should, at ASA.....but, ALPA is definitely asking for too much! Read the open sections email. We need to prioritize. If keeping 700 pay is priority number 1, then lets drop rigs and a funded retirement. Lets drop the 50 seater increases a bit. If rigs is the #1 issue, then lets come down on 70 seat pay. I'm all about getting whats fair, and I aint no management kool-aid drinker, however, I just don't see us being almost 25% higher in pay on the 700 than industry average, which is about what ALPA is asking for, and keeping those planes. If you think we will, you don't understand todays Regional Lift Provider environment! Who decided this? I was never 'polled' on what I think 700 pay should be. Lets get back in there, and compromise and come to an agreement so we dont go the way of ACA/Indy Air.

Quit being a *************************

 

[sweptback]

I care, because......
A. If they take the SLC 700's and dont replace them, my 5-6 year upgrade turns into a 8-10 year upgrade.
B. When the SLC 700's leave, I will be bumped back to the 50 seater.....thus giving me the same dam# paycut the company is proposing I take anyway!!!!

And all you Junior 700 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you get displaced to the 50 seater.
And you Junior 50 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you go back to the freakin right seat!!! Enjoy the whiz wheel and weight and balance forms. See ya on the walk around. When will you guys see, we are way above those we are competing with on these 700's. Why is it a bluff of JA to say they will take them away? Then everyone gets a big paycut!

Go ahead, sell out your fellow pilots so you can get your precious upgrade.

 

[AV8700]

I care, because......
A. If they take the SLC 700's and dont replace them, my 5-6 year upgrade turns into a 8-10 year upgrade.
B. When the SLC 700's leave, I will be bumped back to the 50 seater.....thus giving me the same dam# paycut the company is proposing I take anyway!!!!

And all you Junior 700 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you get displaced to the 50 seater.
And you Junior 50 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you go back to the freakin right seat!!! Enjoy the whiz wheel and weight and balance forms. See ya on the walk around. When will you guys see, we are way above those we are competing with on these 700's. Why is it a bluff of JA to say they will take them away? Then everyone gets a big paycut!

They will take the SLC700's and the 900's were probably never coming here anyway. I don't think it has much to do with our costs, we are competetive. It has a lot to do with Skywests costs. You have people on these boards posting upper 40's second year pay. Jerry said before in his little crew room chat that Skywest was very expensive for the 50. Add more aircraft with more seats, lower the cost. More upgrades, less chance of ALPA on the property. Hasn't Skywest been advertising open pilot interviews?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

It's about picking your battles. You may win the fight and get your pay increases on the CR7, but JA will win the war in the end. You have a higher rate with no a/c to fly when he shifts CR7 flying to SKW. This is not the last contract negotiation we will endure. At the end of five years we start all over again and if industry will support it a bump in pay will occur.

Pick your battles and get it done...

 

[SuperKooter]

Go ahead, sell out your fellow pilots so you can get your precious upgrade.

and sell out your fellow pilots who will be out of a job with your "Burn this motha down" crap.

 

[sweptback]

and sell out your fellow pilots who will be out of a job with your "Burn this motha down" crap.

Tell me, what airline has shut down as a direct result of pilot costs?

 

[FL990]

I care, because......
A. If they take the SLC 700's and dont replace them, my 5-6 year upgrade turns into a 8-10 year upgrade.
B. When the SLC 700's leave, I will be bumped back to the 50 seater.....thus giving me the same dam# paycut the company is proposing I take anyway!!!!

And all you Junior 700 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you get displaced to the 50 seater.
And you Junior 50 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you go back to the freakin right seat!!! Enjoy the whiz wheel and weight and balance forms. See ya on the walk around. When will you guys see, we are way above those we are competing with on these 700's. Why is it a bluff of JA to say they will take them away? Then everyone gets a big paycut!

Congrats Charles, congrats Scott... you have won this sucker over, anyone else!!!


Did you not expect this right before the strike vote??? Come on 79%...they can transfer those planes back just as fast as they took them away. you act like they were on property. We never even had them to begin with...THEY ARE REACHING. They want you to be scared so you vote no...it is all part of the game. I have been here for a while too, and before that I was flying other places...I would love to upgrade, but what good does the upgrade do me if i keep replacing the jobs that I am striving to get. If we keep going lower and lower on pay, there will be no major jobs left....we will have replaced them all.

It is amazing to me how they can convince you that we are doing that bad. Do you think that they are going to shut down the most profitable airline in the industry (according to profit margins, we are).....NOOOOO!!!

When there margins go up, there bonuses go up. If we take a cut, we will be the laughing stock of the industry.... I can see the headlines now

MANAGEMENT SUCKERS MOST PROFITABLE AIRLINE INTO CONCESSIONS!!!

We Have to stand up to them. This is all to be expected. PLEASE, FOR EVERYONES SAKE, DON'T BUY IT!!! IF WE DON'T HAVE A STRONG VOTE, WE WILL GET OUR A$$'S HANDED TO US ON THIS CONTRACT....MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT.

 

[FL990]

It's about picking your battles. You may win the fight and get your pay increases on the CR7, but JA will win the war in the end. You have a higher rate with no a/c to fly when he shifts CR7 flying to SKW. This is not the last contract negotiation we will endure. At the end of five years we start all over again and if industry will support it a bump in pay will occur.

Pick your battles and get it done...

Its not just about the decrease on the 700 but about the 200 as well. We cannot accept a contract that has no cost of living increase for anyone. That in and of itself is concessionary. It is unacceptable. NO ONE INCLUDING ALPA EXPECTS A HUGE RAISE...WHAT YOU SAW IN THE ALPA CHART ABOUT PAY IS THERE TO GIVE ROOM FOR NEGOTIATION. THE REASON NEGOTIATIONS STOPPED IS BECAUSE THE COMPANY DIDN'T BACK OFF OF THERE MULTIPLE CONCESSIONARY PROPOSAL.

Remember, they did not just want one cut, but two separate cuts from 700 pilots. They did not back down from that at all. Also, there was no increase for any FO's and 13 % initial decrease for 700 FO's (that means you 79%) This is to motivate you to hose yourself in the future for possible growth. Afterall, no one can live for very long on this FO pay, and that is the idea...Its not that they can't afford to pay you, its that they don't want you to get comfortable, so they can leverage growth, JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING NOW!!!!

 

[SuperKooter]

Tell me, what airline has shut down as a direct result of pilot costs?

Mesaba is looking that way so is comair.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I believe the current environment that we are all stuck in is management's fault. For years they used bluffs and dangled carrots to try and get what they wanted during every contract negotiations at MOST airlines. They moaned doom and gloom to get what they wanted. They said the paycut was temporary when it never was meant to be (SKW) They said they needed concessions for growth, which never came (CMR) Based on past performance THEY ARE LYING, LYING, LYING,

However, I am afraid it IS possible that Tutt's letter has a ring of truth to it. In the current environment Delta DOES require us to be within a certain cost stucture or someone else gets the flying.

However, because of past dishonesty and LACK of credibility from MGMT during past negotiations, 99.9% of the pilot group say "It's all smoke and mirrors" and "its just to dangle growth for concessions" when it is possible that it is not.

It is all ASA Management's fault. G.O. workers, get YOUR resume ready

 

[COOPERVANE]

By the way, I am voting YES on the strike vote, and I still enjoy having D'anjello on my ignore list.

 

[dardar]

Not that I'm in favor of a pay cut or anything, but you guys really need to rethink the whole "most profitable airline" thing. That really doesn't say a whole lot. If you're going to make an argument, do it with numbers. Management will understand that more.

 

[JustaNumber]

So the big question is, is this a bluff or not? Will Skywest Inc. actually shrink ASA to punish us for not being competitive enough?

I personally can't believe that Skywest had previously made a firm decision (with a big announcement) on sending the 900's to ASA based on their assumption that the pilots would have agreed to a concessionary contract by now, and we would all be happy campers flying for less money as of August 1st. They knew that a concessionary contract was far from being signed, but they bet the farm anyway, and arranged for a huge delivery of a new type of aircraft? I know the people in charge around here are not too brilliant as managers, but that would have been a collossally stupid business decision.

If somehow this actually isn't a bluff, an even bigger question is, how can we stop management from doing this to us again and again in the future? ("Everybody needs to take a 20% paycut this time, or else we take xxx more airplanes away and give them to Skywest.")

I think our primary contract negotiating goal needs to be scope. And at this point, I'm thinking the best scope includes merging at least the ASA/Skywest seniority lists. Anyone else with me? Any better ideas?

 

[FL990]

Not that I'm in favor of a pay cut or anything, but you guys really need to rethink the whole "most profitable airline" thing. That really doesn't say a whole lot. If you're going to make an argument, do it with numbers. Management will understand that more.

I AGREE

13.1% profit margins...$85MIL+ profits

 

[FL990]

However, I am afraid it IS possible that Tutt's letter has a ring of truth to it. In the current environment Delta DOES require us to be within a certain cost stucture or someone else gets the flying.

COOPERATIVE,

do you think delta gives a CRAP what ASA's costs are if they are getting a good price?? or to put it another way, when you go to the grocery store, do you care how much kroger paid for the box of cookies??? NOOOOOOO

All you care about is what YOUUUU pay for the cookies!!

Our company has plenty of room to come down on there prices and still be competative. With 13.1% margins (which are over 2% higher than the number 2 airline, which by the way, WASN'T skywest), they can lower prices to remain competative, still be profitable, and still pay there bills (us).

The problem is, when ASA profit margins go down, that means there bonuses go down, and why would management want to give up there money when they can sucker us into giving up ours?? Because that is exactly the situation...THAT IS REALITY...THE REST IS JUST LIES AND THREATS!!!

 

[ASABound]

Super Cooter

We all know what super cooters feelings are with a name like that. All the junior guys care about is a darn upgrade and to drink the COOL AID. !! Get a life and go work for SKW if you dont want to try to keep /raise the bar!!

 

[IFLYASA]

Way to go you ASA MEC clowns you just cost people their jobs. I hope you are happy. I wish there was a way that some of us pilots with brains could negotiate our own contract and be put on another list were those who actually wanted growth and some chance leaving this dump with pic could do that. If we strike I WILL KEEP FLYING and I don't give 2 craps about you losers and you precious Alpa MEC. I hate them and their Criminal leaders.

"I hope we never cross paths in operations, it could get real ugly"