ASA VP FLT OPs tries to scare the pilots

[JustaNumber]

So the big question is, is this a bluff or not? Will Skywest Inc. actually shrink ASA to punish us for not being competitive enough?

I personally can't believe that Skywest had previously made a firm decision (with a big announcement) on sending the 900's to ASA based on their assumption that the pilots would have agreed to a concessionary contract by now, and we would all be happy campers flying for less money as of August 1st. They knew that a concessionary contract was far from being signed, but they bet the farm anyway, and arranged for a huge delivery of a new type of aircraft? I know the people in charge around here are not too brilliant as managers, but that would have been a collossally stupid business decision.

If somehow this actually isn't a bluff, an even bigger question is, how can we stop management from doing this to us again and again in the future? ("Everybody needs to take a 20% paycut this time, or else we take xxx more airplanes away and give them to Skywest.")

I think our primary contract negotiating goal needs to be scope. And at this point, I'm thinking the best scope includes merging at least the ASA/Skywest seniority lists. Anyone else with me? Any better ideas?

 

[FL990]

Not that I'm in favor of a pay cut or anything, but you guys really need to rethink the whole "most profitable airline" thing. That really doesn't say a whole lot. If you're going to make an argument, do it with numbers. Management will understand that more.

I AGREE

13.1% profit margins...$85MIL+ profits

 

[FL990]

However, I am afraid it IS possible that Tutt's letter has a ring of truth to it. In the current environment Delta DOES require us to be within a certain cost stucture or someone else gets the flying.

COOPERATIVE,

do you think delta gives a CRAP what ASA's costs are if they are getting a good price?? or to put it another way, when you go to the grocery store, do you care how much kroger paid for the box of cookies??? NOOOOOOO

All you care about is what YOUUUU pay for the cookies!!

Our company has plenty of room to come down on there prices and still be competative. With 13.1% margins (which are over 2% higher than the number 2 airline, which by the way, WASN'T skywest), they can lower prices to remain competative, still be profitable, and still pay there bills (us).

The problem is, when ASA profit margins go down, that means there bonuses go down, and why would management want to give up there money when they can sucker us into giving up ours?? Because that is exactly the situation...THAT IS REALITY...THE REST IS JUST LIES AND THREATS!!!

 

[ASABound]

Super Cooter

We all know what super cooters feelings are with a name like that. All the junior guys care about is a darn upgrade and to drink the COOL AID. !! Get a life and go work for SKW if you dont want to try to keep /raise the bar!!

 

[IFLYASA]

Way to go you ASA MEC clowns you just cost people their jobs. I hope you are happy. I wish there was a way that some of us pilots with brains could negotiate our own contract and be put on another list were those who actually wanted growth and some chance leaving this dump with pic could do that. If we strike I WILL KEEP FLYING and I don't give 2 craps about you losers and you precious Alpa MEC. I hate them and their Criminal leaders.

"I hope we never cross paths in operations, it could get real ugly"

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why can't we put it up to a vote?

Well, they do surveys and the scary thing is - ALPA's opener on pay is right what I've been saying when they ask. At least I've gotten smart enough to say SCOPE is priority #1 and Pay is #2 and I don't give a rats a$$ about the Company having to pay for Flica.

 

[IFLYASA]

that you childree, dang, you're everywhere

LMAO !!!!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

So the big question is, is this a bluff or not? Will Skywest Inc. actually shrink ASA to punish us for not being competitive enough?

I personally can't believe that Skywest had previously made a firm decision (with a big announcement) on sending the 900's to ASA based on their assumption that the pilots would have agreed to a concessionary contract by now,

Classic Carrot and Stick. But it is not a bluff. Atkin doesn't bluff (doesn't have to - they are his airplanes and we got no scope with Skywest)

...an even bigger question is, how can we stop management from doing this to us again and again in the future? ("Everybody needs to take a 20% paycut this time, or else we take xxx more airplanes away and give them to Skywest.")

I think our primary contract negotiating goal needs to be scope. And at this point, I'm thinking the best scope includes merging at least the ASA/Skywest seniority lists. Anyone else with me? Any better ideas?

You are exactly right!

 

[IFLYASA]

COOL!!! 900's for 50 seat pay!!! I can't wait!

Come on guys... in general, us at SKYW are NOT happy about getting 900's on the property especially when they're used to whipsaw us against each other. In my opinion, our pilot group made a really poor decision voting through what was supposed to be an 18 month agreement. Just for the record, I voted down that TA and knew we were setting a precedent we didn't want to set. Here we are almost four years later and nothing's changed.

Personally, I wish you guys all the best and support you 100%.

"If only all of your pilots had your stance. Thank You."

 

[~~~^~~~]

If we were the only game in town, we could possibly force higher costs on mainline carriers, but all of us know this is an extraordinarily competitive business. Our Delta Connection Agreement (DCA) requires that by year three (2008), we must have average costs of all DCI carriers and that by year five (2010), we must have the second lowest costs of all DCI carriers.

Most sincerely,

Charlie Tutt
Vice President, Flight Operations​

Guys - I know some of you, especially ATR driver - have long been critical of my position that small jet carriers should be allowed to enter into scope agreements with mainline carriers. But if ALPA had not taken he position outlined in this letter, we would not be in this "extraordinarily competitive business" where the difference between a successful airline and an airplane on the path to sudden destruction is whether or not the pilot is paid as a professional.

http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

Guys we are in this position because ALPA put us here. There is no other reason.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I hate the union and SkyWest managment could feel good knowing that I would vote no on any drive for alpa.

That's why we don't want or need you here!

 

[wms]

CRJ 700

3RD Quarter 2005​

​

ASA SKYW CMR

Operating Data

Revenue Passenger Miles (mil.)
593.36 514.58 399.01
Available Seat Miles (mil.)
746.15 655.28 554.85
Load Factor
79.52% 78.53% 71.91


Revenue Miles (000)
10,659 9,783 7,926
Revenue Hours
24,253 22,666 19,385
Block Hours
30,180 28,551 24,331
Aircraft Days
2,028 3,126 2,366
Revenue Departures
15,584 15,162 14,672
Gallons of Fuel (000)
14,367 14,103 11,601




Financial Data (000)

Flight Crew Expense
$9,730 $9341 $8,227
Fuel Expense
$27,127 $29,633 $22,199
Total Flying Expense
$38,953 $39,737 $31,264


Direct Maint. - Airframe
$4,331 $1,715 $3,391
Direct Main. - Engines
$888 $3,530 $317
Total Direct Maintenance
$5,219 $5,245 $3,708
Maintenance Burden
$693 $0 $1,462


Depreciation
$7,012 $2608 $6,059
Aircraft Rent
$1,033 $11,984 $255


Total Aircraft Operating Expense
$53,112 $59,574 $42,748


Operating Cost per Block Hour ($)

Flight Crew Cost
$322 $327 $338
Fuel Cost
$899 $1038 $912
Other Costs
$69 $27 $34


Total Flying Cost
$1,291 $1392 $1285


Direct Main. - Airframe
$144 $60 $139
Direct Main. - Engines
$29 $124 $13
Total Direct Maintenance
$173 $184 $152
Maintenance Burden
$23 $0 $60


Total Maintenance Costs
$196 $91 $212


Depreciation
$232 $91 $249
Aircraft Rent
$34 $420 $10


Total Cost per Block Hour
$1,760 $2087 $1,757


Ratios and Operating Indicators

Cost per Available Seat Mile
7.12 9.09 7.70
Flight Crew Cost per ASM
1.30 1.43 1.48
Cost per Aircraft Mile
$5 $6 $5
Daily Utilization
14.9 9.1 10.3
Average Speed
353 343 326
Gallons of Fuel per Block Hour
476 494 477
Fuel Cost per Gallon
$1.89 $2.10 $1.91
Average Stage Length
684 645 540
Average Departures per Day
8 5 6
Cost per Departure
$3,408 $3,929 $2914

Data Derived from DOT Form 41

Overall ASA is cheaper, even on the 700's. How about a little something for the effort. No deal until all ASA employees and mgmt take cuts.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

FL990, It is not about overall company profits per quarter. It is about DL going to DCI and saying, I need a 70 seat a/c on this route for the lowest price what can you do. If ASA is not competative, they will move on a not think another thing of it. They are not going to say well ACEY, I like you and you are cheaper on the 50 seater, I'll lose potential revenue and downgrade.

As far as CR2 rates, yes I agree that current contract yearly increases are required.

It's all about business...

 

[COOPERVANE]

COOPERATIVE,

do you think delta gives a CRAP what ASA's costs are if they are getting a good price?? or to put it another way, when you go to the grocery store, do you care how much kroger paid for the box of cookies??? NOOOOOOO

All you care about is what YOUUUU pay for the cookies!!

Our company has plenty of room to come down on there prices and still be competative. With 13.1% margins (which are over 2% higher than the number 2 airline, which by the way, WASN'T skywest), they can lower prices to remain competative, still be profitable, and still pay there bills (us).

The problem is, when ASA profit margins go down, that means there bonuses go down, and why would management want to give up there money when they can sucker us into giving up ours?? Because that is exactly the situation...THAT IS REALITY...THE REST IS JUST LIES AND THREATS!!!

You bring up some good points. I truly hope you are right.

 

[goahead]

How about our great new friend ex chief pilot that is posting BS on our union web site..... So you fu_k us for how many years and now you want to be our bud so you can get your final 6 months of pay and be gone. It's senior di_ks like that that make me want to vote hell yea. Fuc-in fag.