ASA Bad news is out.

[buscap]

I don't know, I'm not a SkyWest pilot. lol. but come check out the next SAPA meeting.

hee heee heee

 

[aircombat]

Wow 10 pages complaining about ASA taking the hurt over Skywest. Like that’s not obvious. However arguing on a chat forum or trying to lean on ALPA like a crutch isn’t going to change anything. How about we focus on what we can do and stop complaining about what we have little control over. If you are feeling slighted or feel like your fellow pilots are being slighted here is what you can do. If you are feeling sick don’t hesitate to call in. Take advantage of your vacation time and trip conflicts. Don’t call crew scheduling asking for flying! Most importantly don’t pick up open time. Don’t pretend like you don’t do it because I see many pilots doing it every day in the crew room. Also spread the word. Many people don’t know the negative impact they are causing by making themselves more available. I know that making yourself scarce might cause a slight financial burden however think about the 100+ that are waiting for a call back. If you were in their spot would you want them to work more to fill the void?

 

[pave driver]

For those with a wife and kids living below their means for years and years - what do you think about picking up open time? For those who are single and paying off a $100k plus student loan for flight training driving a new M3 on a car loan - what do you think about picking up open time?

I get many various answers from the guys I fly with. I know guys who have massive medical bills for their family members. I know others with loads of debt from school. I've spoken with many others who live beyond their means and others who are very frugal. My opinions are often different from others but I never think poorly of others who work more so they can cover important costs.

Remember that the decisions being made are only being made by managers and not by the workers. Don't hate the players but you can hate the game for certain.

 

[aircombat]

For those with a wife and kids living below their means for years and years - what do you think about picking up open time? For those who are single and paying off a $100k plus student loan for flight training driving a new M3 on a car loan - what do you think about picking up open time?

I get many various answers from the guys I fly with. I know guys who have massive medical bills for their family members. I know others with loads of debt from school. I've spoken with many others who live beyond their means and others who are very frugal. My opinions are often different from others but I never think poorly of others who work more so they can cover important costs.

Remember that the decisions being made are only being made by managers and not by the workers. Don't hate the players but you can hate the game for certain.

everyone has the same thing to say when picking up open time is addressed. I know that these stories tend to get sensitive and make you want to side with the sob story. Unfortunatly you are right most of us do live beyond our means. I'm not immune I also have debt however if I have to rely on open time to barely make it I don't think I could have a good excuse short of a real emergency. I have a hard time believing that frugal people require open time. I know because I am one of those. We maybe aren't paid the best but if you are frugal you can make it work. I would like to feel bad about the sob stories however poor planing is not an excuse.

 

[Erlanger]

And all Skywest pilots know they owe all those things to ALPA or other airline unions.

Like I asked Joe, what would their pay and QOL be without the bar being raised at the union carriers over the years?

You need to check your facts. You probably weren't around in the business in the '90s but Skywest lead the industry with pay and work rules by far. Almost every pilot at the other regionals were tacking the Skywest rates and work rules to the doors of management and saying just give us this and we'll be happy. I know this for a fact. (OK, so maybe not almost every pilot)

9/11 changed alot and after that Skywest told us all that they'd have to back off from their promise to keep us ahead of everyone else. Jerry Atkin had the foresight to see what was a head. We're not leading anymore or at the top but we're not anywhere near the bottom, morale is better then at most places, we sleep at night and we're not in the same situation as ASA, Comair, ExpressJet and whoever else. Sorry guys but don't be blaming us for anything or accusing us of feeding off anyone else.

 

[10nCLR]

you need to check your facts. You probably weren't around in the business in the '90s but skywest lead the industry with pay and work rules by far. Almost every pilot at the other regionals were tacking the skywest rates and work rules to the doors of management and saying just give us this and we'll be happy. I know this for a fact. (ok, so maybe not almost every pilot)

9/11 changed alot and after that skywest told us all that they'd have to back off from their promise to keep us ahead of everyone else. Jerry atkin had the foresight to see what was a head. We're not leading anymore or at the top but we're not anywhere near the bottom, morale is better then at most places, we sleep at night and we're not in the same situation as asa, comair, expressjet and whoever else. Sorry guys but don't be blaming us for anything or accusing us of feeding off anyone else.

The End.....

 

[buscap]

But

but
but but and and and

just kidding

it's the end

 

[JustaNumber]

Also yes, an RJ could make more money if they could actually charge more given the fact that we offer fewer seats, but they don't.
We compete with other airlines, and if they do not do exactly what we do, there is no way to employ that strategy. DAL is stuck pricing tickets with the market.
Fact is that with that market they will actually have a better yeild on the lower priced tickets with a larger jet. The RJ's are very costly per seat mile, where as the larger jets are not.

Your logic does not make sense. RJ's currently are the only aircraft operating on many routes. They compete against other RJ's. The market is currently limited in the number of seats in that market, compared to using larger jets. The price for those seats is more than had the market been flooded with more seats on larger jets. So you're telling me you would throw an '88 on a market currently served by a single CRJ200, so you could take advantage of the lower CASM? Even if you replaced three 200's with one '88, sure it would cost you less, but since a market is defined by a specific city pair at a specific time, you still would not get as many pax on that '88 due to the specific times that pax want to travel.

The airlines are doing the best they can at matching aircraft size to available market; it's pretty silly to think that we know more than the people looking at the actual number of beans in front of them.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Your logic does not make sense. RJ's currently are the only aircraft operating on many routes. They compete against other RJ's. The market is currently limited in the number of seats in that market, compared to using larger jets. The price for those seats is more than had the market been flooded with more seats on larger jets. So you're telling me you would throw an '88 on a market currently served by a single CRJ200, so you could take advantage of the lower CASM? Even if you replaced three 200's with one '88, sure it would cost you less, but since a market is defined by a specific city pair at a specific time, you still would not get as many pax on that '88 due to the specific times that pax want to travel.

The airlines are doing the best they can at matching aircraft size to available market; it's pretty silly to think that we know more than the people looking at the actual number of beans in front of them.

No that is not what I said. You misunderstood the point.
We still need to fill the seats. With the example of ABQ, we fill 757's out of there all of the time.

My point of putting RJ's on routes was that the idea was to up the ticket prices. Fact is that we as well as everyone else has taken seats of of almost every market. Ticket prices have not gone up.
We have gone from 777's to 757's in the ATL-MCO market. Prices have not gone up. We have put RJ's on BHM when we had 757's doing that route. Prices have not gone up. It is not that we do not want to charge more. It is that our competition does not.
What that equates to is less yield per seat because the RJ's have a higher operating cost. If we were in fact able to raise the prices on the RJ routes, you argument would be correct.
We would still charge the same with an 88 and still fill all of the seats. It is not intuituve, but we have added 88's and 757's in to cities that were RJ's. Fact is prices are the same and the flights are still full. (IND, MDT,ORF to name a few)

One thing DAL route management has realized is that people purchase around the single class RJ's. They are doing what they can to limit those single class RJ's to flights under 2.5 hrs for a reason.

What I have written above is not my take but that of the people that run the route and marketing depts. They are the ones taking 50 seat jets out of the market and adding in 88's and 90's. This will continue to occur, and you may even see some of the 76 seat jet cities like MKE add more 88's or the like in the next few years.

 

[Nevets]

If there is anyone in the business who knows what they're doing it's Jerry Atkin of Skywest, Inc. He says the CRJ700s and 900s are money makers but the 200s are not anymore.

Yet, he tried to buy an operation with 274 50 seaters.

You need to check your facts. You probably weren't around in the business in the '90s but Skywest lead the industry with pay and work rules by far. Almost every pilot at the other regionals were tacking the Skywest rates and work rules to the doors of management and saying just give us this and we'll be happy. I know this for a fact. (OK, so maybe not almost every pilot)

9/11 changed alot and after that Skywest told us all that they'd have to back off from their promise to keep us ahead of everyone else. Jerry Atkin had the foresight to see what was a head. We're not leading anymore or at the top but we're not anywhere near the bottom, morale is better then at most places, we sleep at night and we're not in the same situation as ASA, Comair, ExpressJet and whoever else. Sorry guys but don't be blaming us for anything or accusing us of feeding off anyone else.

The promise of keeping you ahead of everyone else is the key right there. This is the same that Ameriflight did back when I was there. Its just their tactic to keep you non-union. The same tactic they use now except for now its not as good as keeping you ahead of everyone else. Now its just industry average +1. And in the meantime, ALPA pilots (since before the 90s) contribute to the profession.

 

[Speedtape]

You are correct, but there is something that need to be discussed. The 70/90 seat platforms have other issues that just money. DAL knows that. That is why they have started to put limits on them. Three hrs in an RJ is just too long. This management team knows it.

Also yes, an RJ could make more money if they could actually charge more given the fact that we offer fewer seats, but they don't.
We compete with other airlines, and if they do not do exactly what we do, there is no way to employ that strategy. DAL is stuck pricing tickets with the market.
Fact is that with that market they will actually have a better yeild on the lower priced tickets with a larger jet. The RJ's are very costly per seat mile, where as the larger jets are not.

I will grant you that there are a few markets that will see a bump in RJ service due to the netting effect that we will employ with our many hubs. It will not be as great as you think. Moreover, the merger will in effect keep the RJ's that were there, where there was an actual business case to bring in a large jet. For example places like PIA.

When the 100 seat jet actually arrives in a platform that DAL is willing to sign on to, yes, you will see DAL take 40 or seats off a flight in favor of that.
One thing DAL will never admit publically and almost never personally, is that they have seen travelers actually book away from RJ's even if the price is more. That right there is proof in the pudding.

Also the 76 seat jet is not necessrarly a money maker. What it does, is allowes DAL to offer a "preimum" product to medium markets. That is the sole purpose behind it. Not to make more money.

I don't have time to address each of your points--at least for now.

I will keep it simple and say the following: The RJ, no matter what size, is just another layer of flying. Yes, the CASM is higher than an MD88, and the MD88 Casm is higher than the 757, and the 757 Casm is higher than the 777. If you are going to single out one airplane for comparison for your argument, then your argument is flawed. Guaging aircraft size depends on demand/future bookings. Any argument that can be made against the RJ as compared to larger guage aircraft, can usually be made about the next size up to the next size up. Yes, yields are thin and to raise prices right now would further stifle demand. If fuel goes up, there may be markets that no longer make sense to serve with any size aircraft. There are many variables, and right now, the market is very dynamic. Feed is even more critical. Any plan to reduce capacity will affect the whole fleet to some degree. 50's may be further reduced, but they will not go away until there is something of like size that is more efficient to replace it--not a narrow body aircraft.

 

[USCtrojan]

You need to check your facts. You probably weren't around in the business in the '90s but Skywest lead the industry with pay and work rules by far. Almost every pilot at the other regionals were tacking the Skywest rates and work rules to the doors of management and saying just give us this and we'll be happy. I know this for a fact. (OK, so maybe not almost every pilot)

9/11 changed alot and after that Skywest told us all that they'd have to back off from their promise to keep us ahead of everyone else. Jerry Atkin had the foresight to see what was a head. We're not leading anymore or at the top but we're not anywhere near the bottom, morale is better then at most places, we sleep at night and we're not in the same situation as ASA, Comair, ExpressJet and whoever else. Sorry guys but don't be blaming us for anything or accusing us of feeding off anyone else.

You're right, SkyWest isn't in the same situation right now. However, when United files Chapter 7, you'll be lucky to have half your seniority list left. SLC will be all that's left.

Trojan

 

[Erlanger]

You're right, SkyWest isn't in the same situation right now. However, when United files Chapter 7, you'll be lucky to have half your seniority list left. SLC will be all that's left.

Trojan

The only people that talk about United's demise are the fools on FI. United isn't going anywhere other then to maybe merge with Continental.

 

[Data]

The only people that talk about United's demise are the fools on FI. United isn't going anywhere other then to maybe merge with Continental.

Come on people, United, Chicago, work with me here. Who do we know that is also from Chicago that uses his organizational skills to run/save large all-but-dead corporations????? United is the GM of the airlines, maybe they'll save themselves with hybrid airplanes and a couple of billion in AARP, that's TARP for airlines, coming soon to a terminal near you.

 

[USCtrojan]

The only people that talk about United's demise are the fools on FI. United isn't going anywhere other then to maybe merge with Continental.

Yeah, you better hope. United has just about the WORST balance sheet in the industry, on par with US Airways. Add to that the morale -- and rising oil prices. Branson has all but predicted their death. Continental already looked at merging, not gonna happen. Hopefully for you, Obama will rescue (I doubt it, there's no more money). Only option left would be Jerry to give them some of the money he's earned over the years. I doubt it, you don't invest in a sinking ship.

Trojan