Any SWA or Airtran pilots see recent SLI at Mesaba/Colgan/Pinnacle?

[Ty Webb]

If this goes to arbitration, SWAPA and SWA will negotiate all of these items for the AirTran pilots. .

If SWAPA is representing AirTran pilots at that point, they will be careful to do it fairly . . . No union wants to have to deal with a Duty of Fair Representation claim, especially on top of everything else. That's a recipe for USAirways II

A negotiated deal is the only way to go for AirTran guys in my opinion.

If the rest of SWA pilots feel like the vocal FO's on this board, that doesn't seem very likely right now . . . . Of course, the wildcard will be the SWA Captains, who will realize that a negotiated deal is the best deal for them; if it goes to Arbitration, they have more to lose in arbitration than the FO's.

 

[Lonestar]

Guy's, what Bill is saying is plainly written in the Four Party Process Agreement (that your MC signed):

Section II
(d) In the event that an integrated seniority list is reached through negotiations, the
following shall apply:
(i) SWAPA and ALPA will each designate members of their respective
Negotiating Committees to comprise an Implementation Work Group,
whose sole responsibilities will be to negotiate an implementation
schedule with the Companies to include:
a. Adjustment of the AirTran-ALPA CBA to reflect the
compensation and benefits of the SWAPA CBA;
b. Application of the SWAPA CBA to AirTran pilots;
c. B717 rates of pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA
CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots; and
d. International pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA
CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots.
(ii) Members of the Implementation Work Group from SWAPA shall serve
only as consultants during discussions on the modification of the
AirTran-ALPA CBA, and members of the Implementation Work Group
from ALPA shall serve only as consultants during discussions on the
modification of the SWAPA CBA.
(iii) Compensation, as defined in Section 4.C of the SWAPA CBA [and other
economic terms e.g. Healthcare coverage, 401k, Vacation and Sick Leave
accrual] shall be made applicable to AirTran pilots through the ALPA
Letter of Agreement process as negotiated with the Companies by the
Implementation Work Group.
(iv) Any negotiated seniority list will include both the seniority list
implementation schedule and letter of agreement delineated in II.d.(i-iii).
(v) AirTran pilots will continue to work under their existing CBA in
accordance with the implementation schedule negotiated by the
Implementation Work Group, and after which time they will be covered​

by the SWAPA CBA.

You (ALPA...because you're not SWAPA) won't get a seat at the table when these things are hashed out unless we get a NEGOTIATED list. Like I said before, If an SLI isn't NEGOTIATED... all bets are off.

 

[Bill Nelson]

If SWAPA is representing AirTran pilots at that point, they will be careful to do it fairly

I would agree with that. SWAPA is always careful not to put the association in harms way. The problem for you is that these items will be negotiated prior to SWAPA representing AirTran pilots and before any list is implemented thus there will be no DFR issues. That is what I have been told anyway.

The only sure deal is a negotiated one. If this goes to arbitration I would guess the risks are larger on the AT side of the fence. Just my guess. Enjoy your weekend.

 

[texman]

Didn't the "new" guys get the call to come to work because of the announcement in September?

Nope. Had nothing to do with it. More vacations. Group is becoming SR.

 

[texman]

And, the readers should be reminded that with 1700 pilots, if HUNDREDS applied, that means over a THOUSAND did not, using your figures.

It was about 700, captians included.

 

[dicko]

Bill and Lonestar,

You guys do seem to be the braintrust of this stuff. I'm going to spend the rest of the weekend carefully considering your invaluable points. I think you may have jolted me into seeing the light.

If you haven't already, please petition SWAPA for a job. I'm fully behind the idea.

Respectfully,

D.






If only there was a sarcasm font ...









.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I would agree with that. SWAPA is always careful not to put the association in harms way. The problem for you is that these items will be negotiated prior to SWAPA representing AirTran pilots and before any list is implemented thus there will be no DFR issues. That is what I have been told anyway.

The only sure deal is a negotiated one. If this goes to arbitration I would guess the risks are larger on the AT side of the fence. Just my guess. Enjoy your weekend.

If it's prior to SWAPA representing us, then ALPA will still be. I like our chances and will enjoy my weekend. You do the same now, ya hear.

 

[texman]

Yes, and he already turned the key when he signed the Process Agreement. You guys are clinging to false hope. The integration is happening. Live with it.



I don't think any of our MC members have ever interviewed at SWA.

I don't think any four party agreement can make a multi billion dollar company do any thing. Or force to. We will see. I still think we have another purchase on the horizon.

 

[RLAblows]

Nope. Had nothing to do with it. More vacations. Group is becoming SR.

are you sure the acquisition/merger had nothing to do with Poolies/newhires being on property? Somebody posted this right after the announcement by the name of Chase. It's an official blog. Dated Sep. 27th 2010.


Blog By: Mike Van de Ven on Sep 27, 2010 at 7:00am
https://blog.swalife.com/sites/defau...anyon_blue.jpg I'm sure you all are still buzzing from this morning's exciting news. I couldn't be more optimistic about the future of Southwest Airlines and the many opportunities this acquisition brings us. In addition to seeing an opportunity to grow our earnings, an approved deal also presents a number of network opportunities. In order to take advantage of these opportunities, we will be increasing the utilization of our existing fleet in 2011. Naturally, this increase in aircraft utilization means more flights, which requires additional Flight Crews. So, I am happy to say that we are back in the business of hiring Pilots and Flight Attendants!

We are tentatively planning to add 150-200 new Pilots and 250-300 new Flight Attendants next year. Since we haven’t hired Flight Crews since 2008, our hiring Teams will soon begin an aggressive schedule to interview and process qualified candidates. We expect to have 100 Pilots begin New Hire training in first quarter 2011, and start rolling into our system in March. Additional Pilot classes will follow as required. Flight Attendant classes also will begin in first quarter 2011, and will include three classes of approximately 100 each. They will start rolling into our system in April.
Of course, more flights doesn't just create the need for more Flight Crews. Rest assured, we will be hiring as needed for our other operational groups as well. Stay tuned for more news on this.

I know many of you have been eagerly anticipating growth for our Company, and I’m looking forward to adding to our Family. __________________
chase

I'm sorry, I forgot to put a link to the thread, note the date.
SWA Poolies - Hiring to Start
New Deal Means Growth—Including More Pilots and Flight Attendants


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=136095&highlight=swa+poolies

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I still think we have another purchase on the horizon.

This will be something that will help to bring both groups together with a unified voice as we scream "Staple them"!!!!!

 

[RLAblows]

This will be something that will help to bring both groups together with a unified voice as we scream "Staple them"!!!!!

I still get a laugh from that comment every time. Lookout Jet Blue. :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Guy's, what Bill is saying is plainly written in the Four Party Process Agreement (that your MC signed):​

You're reading it selectively. Let me break it down for you, concentrating on the intent of an entire SENTENCE and PARAGRAPH, not just picking and choosing what words help your argument:

a. Adjustment of the AirTran-ALPA CBA to reflect the
compensation and benefits of the SWAPA CBA;

Correct. If a negotiated or mediated list is not produced, ALPA has no input on when AAI pilots come onto SWAPA compensation and benefits. However, once the ISL is implemented, that happens automatically as a function of the RLA and representation by one collective bargaining agent on one CBA, but that could be a LONG time if integration is fought after arbitration.

b. Application of the SWAPA CBA to AirTran pilots;

Correct. See above.

c. B717 rates of pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots; and

Correct. See above. We continue on our current pay, work rules, and benefits after arbitration until they are either agreed to under the negotiations that start after arbitration on those issues or until the ISL is implemented as mentioned above.

d. International pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots.

Correct. Again, see above.

You (ALPA...because you're not SWAPA) won't get a seat at the table when these things are hashed out unless we get a NEGOTIATED list. Like I said before, If an SLI isn't NEGOTIATED... all bets are off.

Yes, actually, we DO get a seat at the table when those are hashed out. It's in Section VI of the Process Agreement. In the event of arbitration, the panel that meets to negotiate when those things above are applied to us are with our people at the table (Items A and B above). The long-term changes to the SWAPA contract (Items C and D above) do NOT involve us.

All bets aren't off, they're simply in limbo for an unknown period of time. Could be months if the arbitrated list is relatively fair, it could be longer if it's fought (years if there's a legal battle similar to UAir / F9). However, one thing that's NOT covered by the above which was previously threatened by a poster who quite clearly has no CLUE how the RLA works is the negotiation of Longevity or probationary periods.

You can't simply create a new longevity or probationary period for a work group represented by the RLA *UNLESS WE AGREE TO IT*.

You can take that to the bank, that question has been asked and vetted by several different attorneys. The other stuff? Yes. Those two issues? Not a chance. Pretty ridiculous stuff right there... ​

 

[RLAblows]

Good lord, we must be getting close to something. The bickering is getting more focused.

 

[ArcadiaMaxima]

What was that airline called way back when.....airtran....no...transtar...wait maybe it was both.

 

[RLAblows]

What was that airline called way back when.....airtran....no...transtar...wait maybe it was both.
[/QUOTE


good post. Very original and well thought out.

 

[Max Powers]

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm worried about some of these posts especially by the likes of Billy and Bob. Hopefully their logic does not represent more than 10% of the pilots at SWA. If so the entire operations could be at risks or losing its edge.

 

[PCL_128]

And what happens if the Process Agreement goes away?

The Process Agreement is a legally binding document. You can't just make it "go away" as you'd like. Your union signed it, as did your management. You'd best read it and understand it, because it controls this entire process, from beginning to end, and it mandates an operational integration.

There's absolutely NO way Gary is gonna let this ruin his (and Herb's) legacy at this company.

You really are delusional if you think a brilliant and successful CEO is going to say "screw you" to thousands of shareholders (who he has a legal obligation to, by the way), just because you want to take your toys and go home when an arbitration doesn't go your way. The legal fights in federal court for years to come over the violation of ATN scope and the Process Agreement would be a drop in the bucket compared to billion dollar class action lawsuits that would result from him backing out of a deal that he swore up and down to the shareholders would create $400 million in synergies, and make it possible for their investment to grow once again, after so many years of share price stagnation. Please, join us in the real world, Red. GK knows that his legal obligation is to his shareholders, and he's going to live up to that.

I don't think any four party agreement can make a multi billion dollar company do any thing.

In that case, you might as well throw your contract in the trash and decertify SWAPA. If management is capable of doing whatever they want, then you don't need a contract and a union, right? Yeah, I didn't think so. Again, let's get back to reality.

 

[SKC]

Pilots and FA's make up the vast majority of the employees at the airline.

While I don't know the current numbers, there would have to be 50% more FAs than pilots (which there may be), just to account for half of the total SWA employees. So, it's a long shot to say it's a vast majority.

 

[scoreboardII]

I'm a self absorbed worthless piece of nonflying blah blah blah

Sheesh.

gee, that was easy

 

[scoreboardII]

BTW, please fill us in on whom will remove us.

The CEO of SWA via GH.

The same one who said "I'm not buying F9 unless there is a negotiated seniority agreement in place prior to purchase".

That guy.

Now, why would the Process Agreement be worded in such a way that "all deals are off" if a NEGOTIATED settlement is not reached? Why?

Maybe you can fill us in on that?