Any SWA or Airtran pilots see recent SLI at Mesaba/Colgan/Pinnacle?

[GoodTimes]

Ty,

You equate people who post on a rumor board to the Taliban? Really? Whatever works dude.

 

[texman]

Thanks for the response to my post earlier. Monwy, yes a lot. But the shareholders voted to furlough in 08. Swa spent 70 mil not to. So money can be spent to save the culture of this airline.

Not furlough, is what I ment to say.

 

[texman]

I luv the fact this is out of are hands. One luv baby!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

You equate people who post on a rumor board to the Taliban? Really? Whatever works dude.

Read the last sentence of my response:

" People who stoop to those tactics are the ones I equate to the Taliban. Certainly not all, but a vocal minority".

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I mean exactly what has been posted by some here, namely self-entitlement and far greater expectations in SLI than what is reasonable, followed by cocksure statements and denigrations of SWA pilots and culture. I also mean grandiose demands made both to SWA's m&a committe and SWA management itself, both of which have and are happening already.

Ok I'll play along. Maybe I've been too busy just doing my job lately and missed something but what sort of "grandiose demands" have been made of your management and/or M&A committee from us?
Also please clarify what constitutes an unreasonable expectation on our part with regard to SLI outcome.
I agree that the cocksure statements and denigrations are not helpful. I would point out though that there is plenty of that kind of thing coming from your side of the aisle as well. So we are left with the chicken or the egg question on that one.

Be that as it may, what a few hotheads, and I admit to being that at times, may have to say here will have very little impact in the outcome of this one. Too much is at stake for all 40,000+ of us.
Happy Fathers Day all!
Gtg fly

 

[ivauir]

nevermind

 

[RLAblows]

Well, in order to avoid an "East/West" situation, he'll obviously offer "alternative employment options" to the SWA guys!

OK, that's good stuff. Nobody else found that funny? Thanks for the laugh

 

[General Lee]

I think GK wants Atlanta. And slots on the east coast. He's not in a hurry to bring what some may see as a lot of malcontented unappreciative employees into his fold. I'm sure he knew that AAI was ready to strike before his acquisition decision. So he risks what has always been considered SWA's greatest asset it's culture, in bringing on these employees. But he can't just refuse to bring them over without a rational argument. So he lets this thing go to arbitration, as per the process agreement. Which no one likes. Then to avoid a America West-USAIR debacle, he decides to operate Air Tran separately. Or do something drastic with them. The problem here is GK has Mr. Kelleher, and Ms Barrett looking over his shoulder. Two people who hold no real power but retain a lot of influence, and helped build the company GK runs. I think SWA really does value it's culture. Mr. Kelleher's actions relative to Muse Air are legend. Now Mr. Kelly has to establish himself. He sort of started that with Frontier. Everyone seems to think after the SLI, the battle is over. In fact it may just be starting. One may win the battle and lose the war. GK may feel the need to set a precedent for any future airline it purchases, and Air Tran may be the vehicle it uses to do so. For Air Tran this is gonna be tricky. How much to push for without incurring the wrath of GK. Push to little and possibly give up some seniority. Push to much and possibly lose everything. This is gonna be interesting.

I love how you characterize the Airtran group as "malcontented and unaprreciated." How about fair is fair? You sound "spoiled and ignorant" when it comes to mergers. Merger seniority integration happens in a lot of different businesses, not just airlines. It happens everyday. Wake up and stop sounding so cocky. Go to an arbitrator, and he/she will figure out what is FAIR. If you are scared of that, then continue to characterize your future brothers/sisters that way. Really. Look at it this way. You think you and your group are the "favorite sons" of you dad, but he just got remarried and the new group are his new kids with his new wife. Time to welcome them to the family.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[madjack]

this thread was started by a Delta guy who is merely fanning the flames and sitting back and enjoying the infighting...no point in feeding a troll...

 

[PCL_128]

Yes it is. Talk to your Merger Committee.

ivauir, I think you know that I talk to our MC constantly. Simply put, your interpretations and the interpretations of other SWA pilots here are flat out wrong.

It seems the ATN Merger Committee is starting to 'see the light' with respect to the inherent risks in arbitration.

Don't read things into the update that aren't really there. It's nothing more than a "just the facts" document that explains the risks of arbitration. I'm glad the committee is putting the facts out there.

And another thing PCL, despite this thinking, I do believe Nicolau was hired again for other SLI cases.

Mr. Nicolau is semi-retired right now, only taking a few cases for UAL here and there. He hasn't done an SLI case since the USAir/AWA case.

Guadaloupe holdings was created for a reason..............

You do realize that Guadaloupe Holdings doesn't exist anymore, right? It existed for about 30 seconds on paper as the next few pieces of paper were signed that merged it into AirTran Holdings with AirTran Airways being the surviving subsidiary of Southwest Airlines. Several transactions took place almost simultaneously on the corporate closing date.

15 days notice is all that is required by any party to walk away from it.

Wrong. Read it closer, red. Try reading for comprehension this time.

On the otherside, we have AAI ALPA falling apart and appearantly still owing ALPA national several million.

You really don't know what you're talking about. ALPA finances are pretty complicated, so I won't try explaining it to you in a message board post, but suffice it to say that the AirTran pilots won't be owing anyone anything when we leave ALPA.

 

[ivauir]

ivauir, I think you know that I talk to our MC constantly. Simply put, your interpretations and the interpretations of other SWA pilots here are flat out wrong.

I think you know that my interpretations are accurate. You can whistle in the dark, or you can deal with the world as it really is.

 

[400ADude]

I sense a little bit of nerves here.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Ok I'll play along. Maybe I've been too busy just doing my job lately and missed something but what sort of "grandiose demands" have been made of your management and/or M&A committee from us?

Admittedly, I don't have personal knowledge, although the word is that an AAI union higher-up sent a rather demanding email to mike van de ven, detailing the deal that should be given to AAI pilots. Other than that, I'm addressing possible proposals being put forth by AAI's mc, based on many opinions being shared both here and out on the line by AAI jumpseaters.

Also please clarify what constitutes an unreasonable expectation on our part with regard to SLI outcome.

I won't go into too much detail, so as not to beg too deep an argument, but some here have suggested relative. I hope I needn't say more about that proposal.

I agree that the cocksure statements and denigrations are not helpful. I would point out though that there is plenty of that kind of thing coming from your side of the aisle as well. So we are left with the chicken or the egg question on that one.

Touché.

Be that as it may, what a few hotheads, and I admit to being that at times, may have to say here will have very little impact in the outcome of this one. Too much is at stake for all 40,000+ of us.

Touché again.

Happy Fathers Day all!
Gtg fly

Thanks, and the same to you. Look forward to seeing you over here.

 

[Flycatcher99]

You do realize that Guadaloupe Holdings doesn't exist anymore, right? It existed for about 30 seconds on paper as the next few pieces of paper were signed that merged it into AirTran Holdings with AirTran Airways being the surviving subsidiary of Southwest Airlines. Several transactions took place almost simultaneously on the corporate closing date.

"Subsidiary" is the all-important word here.

 

[General Lee]

this thread was started by a Delta guy who is merely fanning the flames and sitting back and enjoying the infighting...no point in feeding a troll...

Wait, OY6 brought up the very recent Pinnacolaba arbitration award, and asked if that could be applied to a possible Airtran/Southwest arbitration proceeding. All fingers point to a possible arbitration of your SLI, so wouldn't you want to know how very recent awards have been awarded by the people who could do yours? I would want to know what those guys are thinking. Don't be so critical, it makes you seem ultra nervous.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I think you know that my interpretations are accurate. You can whistle in the dark, or you can deal with the world as it really is.

The above quote is the FIRST thing your side should tell the arbitrators. They will LUV it! Looking at reality and the WORLD as it really is, you might want to read the last couple arbitrated awards.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[madjack]

GL,

Nervous, no, just think there is no point to this debate other than entertainment which is why you (OYS) started this thread...

 

[Heavy Set]

Lear, I won't say we are superior. I will, however, remind our readers of the HUNDREDS of AirTran pilots who either applied and weren't qualified, or interviewed unsuccessfully for a job with SWA.

In fact Lear, for conversations sake please remind me how many times you interviewed at SWA? Or for that matter, how about the members of your Merger Committee?

Apples to apples??? Sure, keep telling yourself that.

This is a rich statement. Oh how we forget history....

I remember when I met a former Morris Air 737 FO back in the 90s and he was integrating into SWA (for those of you who are too young to remember, SWA bought Morris Air - Dave Neelman's first airline before JetBlue). He was elated that he was gonna be a SWA pilot. Why? Because he had been snubbed by SWA twice - he flew the same airplanes (737-300s), but he had interviewed and been turned down twice by SWA. I am betting that he is a Captain at SWA right now given the years since our brief discussion. I wonder how he feels about the qualifications of Air Tran pilots nowadays given his "snubbed" background?????

 

[madjack]

As a SWA guy I know how lucky I am to have been hired here...I emphasize that luck played a big part in getting hired...as far as qualifications go AAI vs SWA, that seems a bit rich....there were two former military helo guys in my new hire class and they got hired...they both had got helo's out of military flight school and when I was going through pilot training those slots did not go to the best pilots...but those guys perservered and got fixed wing time in the T-34 and one even had to buy 100 hrs of twin time to get on at a regional before being hired by SWA...Maybe SWA liked the way they interviewed or liked their determination...the point is all SWA pilots were lucky to get hired here...I hear some pilots say we were fools to "pay for training", I just laugh...NEWS FLASH: If you are too proud to buy a type rating, you probably aren't the type of employee SWA wants to hire??

I for one do not look upon the AAI/SWA SLI debate as a comparing a more qualified group vs another...that is BS...but you do have a group that was lucky enough to be hired by a great company (some interviewed 3-4 times before being hired so it was not all luck) with a great culture (fostered by an industry legend Herb Kelleher)...so what the future SWA employees at AAI stand to gain is being lucky enough to be hired by an airline that does not treat it's employees like dirt...can you put a value on that?? All of us were willing to start at the bottom because we knew that we were being hired by a great company and in the long run we knew it would all work out...I know that the AAI pilots did not ask for this acquisition but all the guys on furlough did not ask for that either...it is just the way of the business...it could be worse, Delta or RAH could have bought you...

 

[Tripower455]

This is a rich statement. Oh how we forget history....

I remember when I met a former Morris Air 737 FO back in the 90s and he was integrating into SWA (for those of you who are too young to remember, SWA bought Morris Air - Dave Neelman's first airline before JetBlue). He was elated that he was gonna be a SWA pilot. Why? Because he had been snubbed by SWA twice - he flew the same airplanes (737-300s), but he had interviewed and been turned down twice by SWA. I am betting that he is a Captain at SWA right now given the years since our brief discussion. I wonder how he feels about the qualifications of Air Tran pilots nowadays given his "snubbed" background?????

Good point.

Lots of very qualified guys get turned down too. Once you pass your interview, it's really the luck of the draw. They always have far more applicants than slots, and someone has to be turned down. It all comes down to who you're up against in the interview pool. Or at least it was 17 years ago when I went through.

As for the Morris guys, they were all stapled, and are all pretty senior (roughly 25% ish) Captains nowadays. Just sayin'........

Oh, and there are still some of them walking around with a chip on their shoulder.