Any SWA or Airtran pilots see recent SLI at Mesaba/Colgan/Pinnacle?

[SWA/FO]

Mr. Nicolau is semi-retired right now, only taking a few cases for UAL here and there. He hasn't done an SLI case since the USAir/AWA case.

No way! I mean he in only in his 80s.... He's got another good 15 years in him!!!

 

[MILF Hunter]

Why look to Nicolau's 1990 case?
Bye Bye---General Lee

I meant to answer this question a day or so ago and forgot.

General, the specific reason I quoted Nicolau's 1990 case is because I copy/pasted it directly from the ATN Merger Committee update. I didn't draw the reference; they did! If you or anyone doubts the application of the logic in this case to the current SWA/ATN SLI, perhaps that should be directed toward their "experts".

Of course, PCL will come on to refute the reference and say precedent will prevail over logic and the unique details in this case. I'm guessing this goes to the root of the disagreements between himself and the ATN Merger Committee that led to his recall. They have apparently recalled their NC Chairman as well. It would seem the MEC is getting their ducks in a row!

 

[Tripower455]

Precedent should definitely be a player in this acquisition!

 

[Lear70]

The merger agreement was completed without termination, so it would revert back to four party cancellation...or a three party cancellation at this point. I did some digging into the SW SEC reports. A difficult but interesting read about how the two seperate LLC's were placed between AAI and SW.

Thanks, glad the info that it takes ALL parties to sign to rescind the Process Agreement is making its way out. If the other SWA pilots on here would take the time to read and understand each section, we'll go a long way towards all getting on the same page.

To the other SWA pilots, yes there ARE nuclear options... reneging on your agreement to adhere to binding arbitration and going the UAir/F9 route is one of them, but backing out of the Process Agreement isn't. I'm still *cautiously optimistic* that our NC's/MC's will hammer something out.

From the attitudes that I'm hearing, it seems like it might play out like this.. The AAI NC will realize that a bird in the hand is worth possibly nothing and attempt to get a favorable vote from the membership. The big question will be how many 'I'll keep my seat' or 'I need my upgrade' pilots will sink the vote...versus those that will be truely happy to accept some concessions but to be on the final list quickly.

It's not the NC (they're not involved at this point), it's our MC, but I think that's what you meant. It will take our Merger Committee agreeing to an SLI (which -Cometman- will also include ALL transition items in Sec VII, including pay, benefits, etc - it's all one voting package according to our MC), and ALSO our 8-voting-member MEC agreeing to same in a separate vote *BEFORE* it reaches the pilots for vote.

My prediction: if it makes it to vote, it'll pass. I trust our MC and MEC will only put something out if they have good reason to. Not going to play Monday Morning Quarterback with whatever they bring; they have all the info; I don't. So the honest-to-God truth is that we have little say-so over whether something comes to us to vote or not. It's all in their hands.

I envision the Airtran pilot vote being the most pivotal point. Take it to arbitration and gamble that the outcome (ISL) may never be fully implemented.

Funny, we think the same thing on your side... that your vote will be the harder one to garner.

Oh yeah, forgot to answer the other poster. Yes, I interviewed. Twice. Yes, I passed the interview first time (buddy in the PD), but didn't make the cut at Selection Board (none of the civies did that round, only the mil guys were taken from our email list we exchanged at the interview amongst our interviewee class). 2nd time I was just having a bad day and did a crap job of interviewing. Still had a great time, great bunch of people, no complaints. It's the only interview I've never gotten the job at, but such is life, no hard feelings. :beer:

That doesn't change the fact of what the Process Agreement says. You guys can attack the messenger (me) since you can't attack the message (what the PA says), but it won't change the facts. There are a lot of things that work in your favor, some that work in ours, and there's *NO REASON* for the threats and innuendo. Hopefully we can get past that, our groups will find a middle ground somewhere in there, and we'll go on down the road making money, kicking butt, and having a good time doing it.

Going to try to take a hiatus from this board for a few days; I can always tell when it's getting to me, I start losing my sense of humor in responding to posts. Sorry if I've been snippy the last two days, the personal attacks and overall job threats to our pilots does that to me. Hope everyone had a good Father's Day.

 

[General Lee]

Precedent should definitely be a player in this acquisition!

Agreed. RECENT precedent should do fine. The last few especially.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Agreed. RECENT precedent should do fine. The last few especially.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Wow, you're still pretending to be an airline pilot? I thought your mom grounded you?

 

[waveflyer]

Agreed. RECENT precedent should do fine. The last few especially.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hey General/OYS- for entertainment purposes-

As another top tier airline, IF delta had bought Air Tran how do you think the list should look in the end? Please be honest.

 

[greenpilot]

Hey General/OYS- for entertainment purposes-

As another top tier airline, IF delta had bought Air Tran how do you think the list should look in the end? Please be honest.

Do you think the arbitrator would take into consideration all the senior delta captains that left delta to start over at airtran?

 

[ivauir]

Thanks, glad the info that it takes ALL parties to sign to rescind the Process Agreement is making its way out. If the other SWA pilots on here would take the time to read and understand each section, we'll go a long way towards all getting on the same page.

To the other SWA pilots, yes there ARE nuclear options... reneging on your agreement

No "reneging" required. The process agreement defines a path to create a list. It does not guarantee its application.

Please don't interpret this as a threat - just explaining the document.:beer:

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Please don't interpret this as a threat - just explaining the document.:beer:

I don't need a minor in Latin to read between the lines.

 

[dicko]

No "reneging" required. The process agreement defines a path to create a list. It does not guarantee its application.

Please don't interpret this as a threat - just explaining the document.:beer:

There's a good reason why USAPA are the pariahs of this industry. Do you really want to follow them down that path ?

The spirit of the agreement and any arbitrated list is clear. Take the good with the bad and move on. Anything else shows a deep lack of integrity.

 

[ASADFW7]

A lot of talk here is swirling around the what ifs, well what if the parties come to an agreement? What then? What about getting our crap together as one group? I could care less what the expectations are, the reality will be decided while negotiating. Maybe our two groups can be working on that? May the subject matter experts work on that for a while, settling on a deal.

 

[Lear70]

No "reneging" required. The process agreement defines a path to create a list. It does not guarantee its application.

Please don't interpret this as a threat - just explaining the document.:beer:

No offense taken, and I guess that's the issue: Your interpretation and our attorneys' interpretation of Sec VI.a. is evidently drastically different and from the last time I spoke to our MC/MEC members, SWAPA hasn't voiced anything of the kind to our MC/MEC either, much less publicly in an announcement or the short interpretation/synopsis of the Process Agreement.

Time will tell, but that's not something I'm worried about (there's plenty of concern without adding something our own attorneys aren't worried about to the pile). :beer:

 

[dicko]

A lot of talk here is swirling around the what ifs, well what if the parties come to an agreement? What then? What about getting our crap together as one group? I could care less what the expectations are, the reality will be decided while negotiating. Maybe our two groups can be working on that? May the subject matter experts work on that for a while, settling on a deal.

I have high hopes for this. I think it's worth it.

 

[ASADFW7]

They moved the cheese last September, I saw the book Who Moved my Cheese? at the used book store and was reminded not to act like a brat. There is always a few who actually need to read that book, just the thought of reading it is enough to make me puke.

 

[orangebellyav8r]

Oh yeah, forgot to answer the other poster. Yes, I interviewed. Twice. Yes, I passed the interview first time (buddy in the PD), but didn't make the cut at Selection Board (none of the civies did that round, only the mil guys were taken from our email list we exchanged at the interview amongst our interviewee class). 2nd time I was just having a bad day and did a crap job of interviewing. Still had a great time, great bunch of people, no complaints. It's the only interview I've never gotten the job at, but such is life, no hard feelings.

Now we find out why you have a bone to pick with SWA

 

[General Lee]

Now we find out why you have a bone to pick with SWA

Bone to pick? He wants a fair deal. You had NOTHING to do with this merger. GK and investment bankers wanted it done. Period. The Airtran guys don't owe you or anyone else a thank you. GK and Company see value in the deal, and they will pay to have it done. Some of you corndogs are so cocky it is ridiculous.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

Bone to pick? He wants a fair deal. You had NOTHING to do with this merger. GK and investment bankers wanted it done. Period. The Airtran guys don't owe you or anyone else a thank you. GK and Company see value in the deal, and they will pay to have it done. Some of you corndogs are so cocky it is ridiculous.

WRONG - they want our contract. Its ours General.... if it was so easy, they'd have a great contract too.... but they don't. If it was so easy, they would be working for a stong company too.. They were for sale, they were bought. It could be worst, AA or Delta could have bought them.

They are lucky, more lucky then you or I ever could be.... they get drafted into the best job in aviation where you and I had to interview.

Corndog Cocky! I like it.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I guess GK moved the WN F/O's cheese

Remember, you bought us, we didn't come into this position voluntarily. As has already been pointed out, the majority of us have never even applied there, let alone interviewed. But don't worry, we'll assimilate just fine, in fact, I'm sure GK will agree that the Trannies will handle this deal much better than WN pilots.

 

[General Lee]

WRONG - they want our contract. Its ours General.... if it was so easy, they'd have a great contract too.... but they don't. If it was so easy, they would be working for a stong company too.. They were for sale, they were bought. It could be worst, AA or Delta could have bought them.

They are lucky, more lucky then you or I ever could be.... they get drafted into the best job in aviation where you and I had to interview.

Corndog Cocky! I like it.

So, you want them to be on a B-scale? You want them to bend over and thank you for something they had no control over? When DL/NWA merged, certain groups got things the other didn't have, and it was shared by all. Some got big pay raises, others got bumped to a base they didn't want to go to, while others finally got to be based closer to where they live. It's called business. Your combination is supposed to make your company stronger, as a whole, which will be better for ALL OF YOU eventually. They don't owe you seniority since you fought for your contract. That's not how it works. Even arbitrator Bloch noted Colgan pilots made a lot less than Pinnacle or Mesaba Pilots (jets), but he still placed them higher on the combined list. You are just going to have to live with it, and know that GK wanted this done. You won't be losing one dime over this from your precious contract, so don't worry about that. No talk of pay cuts from your management so far.



Bye Bye---General Lee