Anti union pilots.....I don't get it.

[N2264J]

Re: Anti union pilots...I don't get it

PCL 128 was an ALPA status rep at Pinnacle who abandoned his pilot group in the middle of contract negotiations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier.

In my opinion, he has no standing to condemn anyone who rejects ALPA for any reason, whatsoever.

Coming from someone who should be expelled from the Association because of your RJDC activities, that doesn't exactly mean a lot.

More empty threats. You guys have been talking Article 8 against the RJDC members for the last seven years. So far, nothing.

Since you're no longer an ALPA member, I guess you would have a hard time starting the process now. Maybe you could phone it in. But in the past seven years, you've had plenty of opportunities as an MEC member but didn't. Like so much of what you say, you have no credibility.

You understand, don't you, that Colgan and Skywest pilots can actually read everything you write on here?

 

[JPAustin]

It isn't a black-or-white choice between capitalism and communism. This country doesn't have a pure capitalistic system. What do you think anti-trust laws are for? There has to be balance to keep capitalism in check. If you allow it to run amok, then everyone but the extremely powerful gets fu*&ed, much like the communist systems that you refer to. Pure communism and pure capitalism end in the same result: the little people get screwed, and the powerful get richer and more powerful. What works for everyone is a system of capitalism with checks and balances. Unions, anti-trust laws, etc... provide that balance.

You are onto a good point and are alluding to what Karl Marx stated in his Communist Manifesto. The first step to the utopian society (pure communism) is to build capitalism up until overproduction and it destroys itself, thus tumbling the money down to everyone from the rich and creating everyone equal. At that point, everyone is producing what they want and essentially sharing. That works great if human nature wasn't powered by self preservation. There will always be a villain of sorts looking for absolute power, which is the reason why communism never quite worked and Stalin had absolute power (among many communist leaders of yore and present).

Ergo, capitalism needs checks and balances to a degree and that is why monopolies are kept in check so as to maintain as best a free market as possible. Of course, true Keynesian free market capitalism is but a dream, but we can come close and the fed will always have maintain that razor's edge of control for optimum returns in the market.

 

[BE90flyer]

Slavery and child labor are good for business. Are you suggesting those should be brought back into action, to increase shareholder value?

Environmental regulation stifles business. Do you really want to return Lake Erie to its "prime" of the 60's and 70's? One need only look at the skies of Shenzhen to see the result.

Slavery, child labor and environmental issues are a lot different then pilots demanding more money.

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for making more money. But ALPA exists to keep ALPA alive, not for pilots. People are happy at SkyWest, why should they bring in a group who represents thousands of unhappy miserable people? Certainly not based off the theory that if you don’t join us the company will eventually screw you.

The attitude of "Us versus THEM" mentality will get you no where.

 

[CA1900]

Slavery, child labor and environmental issues are a lot different then pilots demanding more money.

Agreed. But my point was specifically aimed at your reaction to his suggestion that "capitalism run amok" was scary. Pure capitalism can be a hazard to society, just as pure socialism is. Letting businesses do anything and everything (as in my example above) that increases the value of their company is not a good thing for society as a whole.


There's a balance to be found. Where it lies is why we have partisan politics.

 

[PCL_128]

How is a closed shop democratic?
Yes,I realize that this a precondition of employment.
Second point, I agree.

We don't have any true closed shops in this industry. What ALPA usually has is an agency shop, which means that membership isn't required, but paying contract maintenance fees is required of non-members. Those fees are usually about half a percent less than the full dues rate.

 

[PCL_128]

Would you rather work for Mesa than Skywest?

Yep. Without a doubt. As bad as Mesa is, at least there is union protection from wrongful terminations and other issues.

 

[PCL_128]

I never said Air Tran wasn't a Union carrier, I said it was a NON ALPA carrier.
You in previous posts have stated that thier union is not as good as ALPA. So why would you risk your career with anything less than ALPA?

I don't consider it a career risk, because we do have representation. If an AirTran pilot is wrongfully terminated, then he has access to the grievance process to get his job back and be made financially whole. It certainly isn't as good as ALPA, because we don't have the resources that ALPA has, but it is a union with union protections. That's the important thing.

You've resorted to a lot of name calling lately.

Yeah, I've let the Skywest loss get to me a little bit too much. It really pissed me off, just like it did Pennekamp. My apologies for the name calling.

 

[PCL_128]

More empty threats. You guys have been talking Article 8 against the RJDC members for the last seven years. So far, nothing.

Since you're no longer an ALPA member, I guess you would have a hard time starting the process now. Maybe you could phone it in. But in the past seven years, you've had plenty of opportunities as an MEC member but didn't. Like so much of what you say, you have no credibility.

There's no threat. I don't think anyone has every said that they were actually going to do it. I simply said that that's what should be done. Because of various political realities, it will never happen.

 

[waveflyer]

I've supported unions my entire career- But our system does beg the question:

Why can't we have a CBA and still negotiate as individuals in accordance with it? - very different careers- but athletes and hollywood all do this. any others?

Why are we so adamant that we stay with ONE company for our entire careers OR start over? Why does seniority have to govern EVERYTHING? We set it up that way.... Remind me why we all think it works so well.

 

[A350]

After reading all these posts....I can only come to one conclusion....

All you ALPA pushers are convinced of its superiority and that ALPA is a success. I can only imagine what you would consider a failure.

Rez, do sound like its OK for someone who has paid dues for 20 years to be out on the street because he didn't attend every union/mec meeting during his career...that must make him an apathetic pilot who doesn't deserve to wear a uniform?

PCL: Why is it that only ALPA/union carriers can have a checks and balances system? The only reason ALPA ever gets a terminated pilot their job back is when the company decides to clear up all the grievances during contract signing time.....and by then the damage to the pilots finances, credit, and life are permanent, no matter whether there is pay loss or not.

If ALPA was such a success, I would still have a pension and wouldn't have had to start over at another carrier while my mainline carrier hired over 1500 new union pilots.

And Rez....I went to the meetings and tried to be a part of the process. They always had what they were going to do figured out long before the gavel went down.

A350