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Anti union pilots.....I don't get it.

capt. megadeth

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It just absolutely freaking BLOWS MY MIND to see all the anti union pilots on here!

I mean, correct me if I am wrong here but IMO if you don't want a union, you are basically saying you trust management. Can management and trust really be used in the same sentence these days? Don't people see the crooks for who they are? Maybe I should start smoking whatever they are....

I just don't get it. WTF???? Management sticks together, why don't pilots? Management must be loving these people.
 

G2T

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The people who don't believe in unions haven't had to personally use them for anything yet. They just benefit from the broad actions that the organization takes without supporting it. It is just like the G.A. pilot who refuses to support/join A.O.P.A. because it is too expensive even though they benefit from the organizations actions whether they are members or not.
 

sstearns2

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Some of the 'anti-union' people on here have good reasons to be so.

There's also a big difference between feeling that ALPA is not right for your airilne and being anit-union.

Scott
 

BirdCatcher

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It just absolutely freaking BLOWS MY MIND to see all the anti union pilots on here!

I mean, correct me if I am wrong here but IMO if you don't want a union, you are basically saying you trust management. Can management and trust really be used in the same sentence these days? Don't people see the crooks for who they are? Maybe I should start smoking whatever they are....

I just don't get it. WTF???? Management sticks together, why don't pilots? Management must be loving these people.
It's sad, not only do we have to contend with so many management types who only care about increasing, then increasing, then increasing revenue, we have to contend with a increasingly growing number of pilots who don't understand the world in which they live.

"I'm just happy to have a job." The problem is, this is a PROFESSION, working at the mall in high school was a JOB. Maybe Oakleys prevent seeing reality, no one wants to know the history of this profession. "Understanding the past to prevent the future"

"I'm just happy to have a job." Yes, that's it, the company is a charity to provide for aspiring pilots. Your just lucky right? Nevermind the fact they need to have pilot fill that seat, they need you. You are there to protect their interests, yet as we have seen over and over again, they only protect the SHAREHOLDERS interest. Yet so many think they are not professional, "just happy to have a job"

Hope that not too many of these type make it to UPS and other places. Then what will become of this profession?
 
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arthompson

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What really amazes me are the number of people that are so harsh on how management at various places does things but have no real plan to allow the companies to continue to be profitable so you can continue to have a job. I guess no one here understands that managements job is to be able to make the company turn a profit. No profit, no company, no job for the pilot (or anyone else for that matter).

I have a friend that made the leap from union leadership to management. While I know for a fact that he got screwed by his bosses when he made that leap, he at least stepped up to the plate. I doubt many of you "oh my god why won't you accept that the union is best for you" people have the balls to do that.
 

PCL_128

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What really amazes me are the number of people that are so harsh on how management at various places does things but have no real plan to allow the companies to continue to be profitable so you can continue to have a job. I guess no one here understands that managements job is to be able to make the company turn a profit. No profit, no company, no job for the pilot (or anyone else for that matter).
You're starting with a false premise. For some reason, you assume that the employees getting a fair share means that the companies won't be able to be profitable. That's patently absurd. Neither ALPA, nor any other union for that matter, wants to see the companies fail. ALPA's goal is to receive a fair share of the pie. Instead, management runs the business by the motto "the more we let you have, the less that I can keep for me." It's an issue of greed. Management refuses to allow the "little people" to have anything, because that means that there will be less for them and the shareholders. If it were up to management, every employee outside of management would make minimum wage and receive no benefits. Unions are there to provide balance and to make sure that that can't happen.
I have a friend that made the leap from union leadership to management. While I know for a fact that he got screwed by his bosses when he made that leap, he at least stepped up to the plate. I doubt many of you "oh my god why won't you accept that the union is best for you" people have the balls to do that.
I'm not sure what you're point is here.
 

capt. megadeth

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Instead, management runs the business by the motto "the more we let you have, the less that I can keep for me." It's an issue of greed. Management refuses to allow the "little people" to have anything, because that means that there will be less for them and the shareholders. If it were up to management, every employee outside of management would make minimum wage and receive no benefits. Unions are there to provide balance and to make sure that that can't happen.

I'm not sure what you're point is here.
Exactly!

I think his point is is that his friend went to the "dark side" :laugh:
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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Mega...

There is a quite a few niave' attitudes out there...

First... did anyone say... "When I become an Air Line Pilot.. I hope I am politically effective in my career.." Yet that is what it takes..

Imagine if every pilot resigned themselves to just "show up, fly thier trip and go home..." Would this be a career or job... ???

Combine that with the first statement.. WHO WANTS to work at defending the profession... Look at most people in the USA. We had election this past Tues... a minority particaption rate showes up.. democracy takes effort... people just want to live thier lives... not to be bothered...

Many pilots when they don't have a jet job...WANT a jet job... and they are so grateful when they do... thus they feel a sense of loyalty.. and joining a union is being disloyal to ones employeer.. (is any employer loyal to its employee?)

It is against expectations to have to fight to keep the job and make it a career...

They'd rather pretend that everything is ok. C'mon..if they recognized unions then they have to actually do something about it....

Simply put it is easier to put ones head in the sand...

Ignorance is bliss....
 

capt. megadeth

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Rez....

We finally agree on something. Ain't it great????

:D
 

J and E's Daddy

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What has ALPA done for me? First and foremost, when my wife was pregnant with our second child. she had a car accident. I called my domicile chief pilot, and was released immediately during the overnight. I was informed 2 days later, that upon my return from the overnight, I was scheduled for a drug test, and was accused of avoiding it. The company attempted to terminate me. ALPA stepped in and got me reinstated, I did not have to pay any attorney fees.
I lost my medical. Who helped me fight the FAA and get my medical back? ALPA did. While I know many are not fans of ALPA and I am aware Republic and Horizon are IBT, without any union, I would not be flying today. I also would have had a termination on my record. Without a union, you have ZERO PROTECTIONS from anyrthing to altitude or clearance deviations while lying the line, or protections from the FAA Aeromedical doctors. You are fair game. There are a few non union carriers. And I wonder how many are constantly being pushed around? If the company treats you well, then you don't need a union. But remember, you also sacrafice protections that ASAP programs provide, or protections if you lose your medical or protections due to lack of communication.
 

MarineGrunt

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What has ALPA done for me? First and foremost, when my wife was pregnant with our second child. she had a car accident. I called my domicile chief pilot, and was released immediately during the overnight. I was informed 2 days later, that upon my return from the overnight, I was scheduled for a drug test, and was accused of avoiding it. The company attempted to terminate me. ALPA stepped in and got me reinstated, I did not have to pay any attorney fees.
I lost my medical. Who helped me fight the FAA and get my medical back? ALPA did. While I know many are not fans of ALPA and I am aware Republic and Horizon are IBT, without any union, I would not be flying today. I also would have had a termination on my record. Without a union, you have ZERO PROTECTIONS from anyrthing to altitude or clearance deviations while lying the line, or protections from the FAA Aeromedical doctors. You are fair game. There are a few non union carriers. And I wonder how many are constantly being pushed around? If the company treats you well, then you don't need a union. But remember, you also sacrafice protections that ASAP programs provide, or protections if you lose your medical or protections due to lack of communication.
Reasons like these are why I decided to vote yes. My wife is going back to school soon and I will be the sole provider for her and our children. If I were by chance caught in a situation as J and E, we would be SCREWED. I don't think things would have gotten any better or worse at SkyWest if the voted passed, but having that type of protection would be a no brainer.

I will also say that some of you ALPA chest thumpers here have done an EXTREME injustice to the ALPA drive and the image of ALPA. I have no doubt that a sizable portion of the 65% were likely turned away by your negative and hostile attitudes. The next drive will probably be no better with those types around. You all know who you are. On the other hand, there have been a lot of very professional members on this board that took the time to educate the SkyWest pilots on the benefits and importance of a union. They made the biggest difference in the cause.

The drive failed. Let's get over it.
 

BigLebowski

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Reasons like these are why I decided to vote yes. My wife is going back to school soon and I will be the sole provider for her and our children. If I were by chance caught in a situation as J and E, we would be SCREWED. I don't think things would have gotten any better or worse at SkyWest if the voted passed, but having that type of protection would be a no brainer.

I will also say that some of you ALPA chest thumpers here have done an EXTREME injustice to the ALPA drive and the image of ALPA. I have no doubt that a sizable portion of the 65% were likely turned away by your negative and hostile attitudes. The next drive will probably be no better with those types around. You all know who you are. On the other hand, there have been a lot of very professional members on this board that took the time to educate the SkyWest pilots on the benefits and importance of a union. They made the biggest difference in the cause.

The drive failed. Let's get over it.
couldn't agree with you more. The threats on here are what made me not vote. I thought if this is the type of people that will be representing me i'll do without.
 

capt. megadeth

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couldn't agree with you more. The threats on here are what made me not vote. I thought if this is the type of people that will be representing me i'll do without.
Why not vote yes and then do something about it (ie. YOU be the one doing the representing)?
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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Why not vote yes and then do something about it (ie. YOU be the one doing the representing)?
takes too much time and effort..... I just wanna fly my trip and go home..leave me alone I wanna go home...

by the way...

what are YOU going to do for ME?


Those who refuse to particapte in politics will be govern by their inferiors....
 

capt. megadeth

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takes too much time and effort..... I just wanna fly my trip and go home..leave me alone I wanna go home...

by the way...

what are YOU going to do for ME?


Those who refuse to particapte in politics will be govern by their inferiors....
Exactly.
 

JoeMerchant

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Some of you are confusing those who are "anti-ALPA" with being "anti-union"..... There are many here who want ALPA to act more like a union.....

What is amazing to me is the number of people who think the current ALPA approach is the best we can do.....

ALPA either needs to reform, or it needs to be replaced....
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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Some of you are confusing those who are "anti-ALPA" with being "anti-union"..... There are many here who want ALPA to act more like a union.....
So what are you doing to help Joe?

What is amazing to me is the number of people who think the current ALPA approach is the best we can do.....
It isn't Joe... we are trying to change it... but we keep getting sued... have any idea what I am talking about...

ALPA either needs to reform, or it needs to be replaced....
Well we just put the RJDC lawsuit to rest, but there are a couple more... as long as our own members keep suing ALPA because thier expectation weren't met it gets hard to do the core work...

ALPA is not a pilots personal career valet...
 

PCL_128

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So what are you doing to help Joe?
He was too busy withholding meeting minutes and refusing to comply with his duties as outlined in the C & BLs to actually do any good. For someone that never even bothered to attend his own LEC meetings when he was an Officer, he sure talks a whole lot about how ALPA should change things. Just a typical self-centered and apathetic pilot. Nothing more.
 

Positive Rate

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Yep.
we are trying to change it... but we keep getting sued... have any idea what I am talking about...


Thats funny........ALPA getting sued?........seems thats what ALPA is always doing........

Full Circle...... huh?
 
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Rez O. Lewshun

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Thats funny........ALPA getting sued?........seems thats what ALPA is always doing........

Full Circle...... huh?
Hardly... ALPA sues companies and gov't.. not individual pilots...

Full circle would be ALPA sueing TWA pilots, or Pan Am pilots, or RJDC pilots...

Next?
 
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