• This site moved from forums.flightinfo.com to flightinfo.com. Please update your bookmarks.

Anti union pilots.....I don't get it.

pilotyip

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
13,629
Total Time
14000
Still applies

"Too hard to read" .... classic:rolleyes:

Only his ideas count If it's "too hard" to read than just admit that there is more at work in our economy than just the "free hand" -- and thank god there is, btw.
Actually is was Econ 438 at Cal State Hayward back in 1977 getting ready for my MBA, but anyway Adam's first rule still applies. "Everyone will look out for their own best interest". Now interest and motivations may be slanted by regulations and other controls, but he had it right back in 1780. We still make our decisions on what is best of us.
 

waveflyer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Posts
10,005
Total Time
12000
Ok- beyond the "you just got served!" post above-- here is how my econ prof's showed it to us:
Get a monopoly game for your computer-- now play it w/ two motivations. 1- win. And then 2- win w/ as much money as possible at the end. To succeed at the 2nd requires cooperation among the players. You can snuff them all out quickly if you're good and lucky--- and end up w/ $2000 of monopoly money- or you can keep the engine going, get all the players to pass go a bunch and win w/ $20,000...your choice.

Ever wonder why anti-"trust" is named that? There are responsibilities to holding wealth and purse-strings. It's no coicidence that Southwest has the most productive pilots. Management keeps their promises... Every other airline needs to hire 3 pilots to do the work of 2 b/c we just don't give a damn anymore. So... they won- b/c they got their concession--- but did they win? Now they have more taxes and health insurance to pay for for the extra pilot, but no more productivity than if they had treated us right to begin with. Actually -even if you get the flight done-- how well was it done? Anyone enjoying the major airline experience these days? Customer? Pax? Employees? Investors? I can't even imagine the managers are all that stoked.

People say atheletes are so over-paid to play a game. Of course, it's a game. But it's a good question. There's an argument the athletes are so good now b/c of the incredible money they make. This makes demand for the sport and all the products increase - and thus more money for managers, owners, vendors, etc...In this case, their union created MUCH MORE value for the owners by fighting for their right to the money. When they were paid scraps, the product wasn't worth paying for because the athletes were mediocre. Now that they get a percentage of the business- the athletes are so tremendous, the sky is the limit to profits on both sides of the labor battle b/c we all want to see another human do such amazing things.

There is a point where you can pay people so little- the value goes down where noone wants that product. We are the talent in the airline industry. We start crashing, and noone will buy our tickets, of course. But in essence, it's already happened. We don't crash, sure- but we surely aren't motivated to perform our best... which leads to a mediocre product that the customer doesn't want to pay more than the min for. That equals weak companies-- and management doesn't even bring home what they could have.

Ahh... but they still are bringing home the windfalls b/c of how much money passes through their hands....

Allowing the rewarding of incompetence is this country's biggest problem right now.
 
Last edited:

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
waveflyer, excellent posts.
 

CopilotDoug

Captain of Industry
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
2,644
Total Time
Done!

CopilotDoug

Captain of Industry
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
2,644
Total Time
Done!
Ahh... but they still are bringing home the windfalls b/c of how much money passes through their hands....

Allowing the rewarding of incompetence is this country's biggest problem right now.
I see what you're saying. Are you implying that manafement is incompetent?
 

waveflyer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Posts
10,005
Total Time
12000
when dealing w/ pilots, yes. among other things they've also been vindictive.

but when a management group that puts an airline into bankruptcy is also allowed to have windfall "management retention" and severance packages all while the pilots are under concessionary contracts- that undermines the entire business and should not be allowed by the shareholders.

did you really also say that people who "read" don't have a place in the "real world" ?? wtf?
 

JoeMerchant

ASA pilot
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
6,353
Total Time
14000+
There's one reason management negotiates better contracts.....They can walk away and start somewhere else for even more than they currently make....They have the ability to make lateral movement....That is leverage....Maybe we could learn something.....
 

CopilotDoug

Captain of Industry
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
2,644
Total Time
Done!
did you really also say that people who "read" don't have a place in the "real world" ?? wtf?
No. Just saying there's theory and reality, and sometimes the two don't mix. Like communism...
 

pilotyip

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
13,629
Total Time
14000
Still own best interest

Ok- beyond the "you just got served!" post above-- here is how my econ prof's showed it to us:

Allowing the rewarding of incompetence is this country's biggest problem right now.
Again even with all the rules, limitation, people still look out for their own best interest. If cooperation or complying with rules is in his or her own best interest, then that is the motivation to make any economic decision. The same decision NJ made in rising pay, home basing, etc it is in their own best interest. Because without it they might not be able to make a quality cut. BTW I never get an answer to this question if all you pilots have all the answer why don't you go out start the perfect airline. Oh forget QOL in management sucks, working 6 days a week, 50-60 hours in the office.
 
Last edited:
Top