Airtran Pilots

[johnsonrod]

Right. Every guy who doesn't like your attitudes is The General. I hope to fly at his airline someday, though. You guys swarm all over anyone who doesn't agree with your own beliefs. It will be interesting to watch your matriculation with the Airtran pilots. Maybe the cockiness level will come down.

Neither was LAX, MDW, BWI, FLL, ATL, EWR, LGA, PHL, MSP, DTW, and on and on...

We'll see you again in 2015 plus or minus 24 months...

So says someone who's own airline can't even do ETOPS. Did you say plus or minus 24 years? A lot of those cities above came about because you were getting planes and didn't know what to do with them. You also did not want EWR, but were handed it by default from the govt due to the UAL/CAL merger, after Airtran decided to get out of there too. But now that you are getting Tunica, Gulfport, and Key West, dreaming about London and Paris is natural, I guess? Keep dreamin!

 

[johnsonrod]

His argument is BS. Explain how PFT is relevant to those who already had the type from other companies? I've been waiting for a reasonable response, from anyone, explaining why SWA was PFT. The hired pilot paid absolutely no money to SWA for their training. SWA received no compensation from hired pilot. The 737 type is a requirement for employment. How you get it? Well, that's up to candidate.

So, SWA can't afford to give full initial 737 ground school and types to newhires? Oh, that's how they stay profitable, taking advantage of newhires? Is that how it works? SWA just takes advantage of the fact that newhires "accidentally" already have the type in hand? Don't act dumb Say Again. Maybe you equating having the $200 FE written needed for FedEx with the $7000 737 type needed for SWA. You have a hard time equating numbers......

 

[Bake]

Yep, you cracked the code. A 10 billion dollar company stays profitable by not giving their pilots training on the 737. WOW, what a smart dude you are. Now, go out and be Herb and start your own airline. You know how to do it and be profitable. You the man, will you accept my resume?

 

[scoreboardII]

So says someone who's own airline can't even do ETOPS.

You evidently haven't heard every some -700's starting 2012 and every -800 we receive will be ETOPS equiped. Now, why would SWA do that? Who's the one going taking it just a little to personal?

 

[johnsonrod]

Yep, you cracked the code. A 10 billion dollar company stays profitable by not giving their pilots training on the 737. WOW, what a smart dude you are. Now, go out and be Herb and start your own airline. You know how to do it and be profitable. You the man, will you accept my resume?

No, you cracked the code! Why does a $10 billion company STILL do that? I guess that goes away with the AT merger! Yes! Another good thing coming from the AT merger. Many of those 717 guys don't have that 737 type ya know..... And, if I ever did start an airline while drinking Wild Turkey, I would not make people I trusted to keep my airline flying pay their way to come onboard. But, sounds like you would do ANYTHING to get on. But, you just flunked the interview.

 

[johnsonrod]

You evidently haven't heard every some -700's starting 2012 and every -800 we receive will be ETOPS equiped. Now, why would SWA do that? Who's the one going taking it just a little to personal?

See, you are still learning. I am pretty sure you need FAA approval before you are ETOPS certified. You can buy the equipment all you want, but you have to go through hoops for the FAA before you ACTUALLY do it with paying pax. Tell me you already knew that, right? I fly an RJ and I already knew that. Do you know how to use the VNAV yet? I've read about them if you need help. Maybe the Airtran guys can help you out with the ETOPS stuff, if you'll let them. So nice of them!

 

[TAZ MAN]

johnsonrod eats his own poop

 

[Crash Pad]

Do you know what a textual dp is? When and why you have to use it? Have you had to figure out 2nd segment climb? Or are you one of those guys that thinks when the atis says 1000 broken, it means 1000 msl. I bet when they say "hold for release" you look at the fo and say "so we're good to go?". But then, they don't do that in SLC.

 

[27 driver]

If SWA wants ETOPS they will have it. It is all just a matter of time, money and paper work. If a little company like Miami Air with 8 737's can get 180 minute ETOPS don't you think SWA can. Really? It won't happen over night but I would be willing to bet by the end of 2012(or sooner) it will be done. Assuming they want it. Its not rocket surgery!

 

[Lonestar]

The pay issue is already out of the way. Because the ATN pilot group is less than 35% of the combined group, the SWAPA contract is automatically the surviving contract when the pilot groups are merged, and SWAPA is the surviving union. There doesn't have to be a JCBA negotiation. So, in effect, we already have a JCBA. It's just the current SWA contract.

For a second I almost thought PCL was on the right track. He is correct when he says there doesn't have to be a JCBA. But then he makes the mistake when saying he already 'effectively' has a JCBA in SWA's current contract. The problem is that PCL, nor the rest of his MEC, have much control over when (or even if) he and his peeps get to work under the current SWA contract. So to make a slight correction (since the JCBA would cover the time between now and when we're one airline), your JCBA by default is your current ATN contract. Enjoy it, you may be working under it for a while!

 

[Lonestar]

Both have distinct assets that make each valuable for a merger TOGETHER.
Bye Bye---General Lee

This statement is actually quite funny. First, as we all know...this is an ACQUISITION, not a merger. Second, (and this is a big one!) you mention assets as if ATN has any to speak of. They rent just about everything. They bring a bunch of leases with bad interest rates. Wow!

 

[Lear70]

For a second I almost thought PCL was on the right track. He is correct when he says there doesn't have to be a JCBA. But then he makes the mistake when saying he already 'effectively' has a JCBA in SWA's current contract. The problem is that PCL, nor the rest of his MEC, have much control over when (or even if) he and his peeps get to work under the current SWA contract. So to make a slight correction (since the JCBA would cover the time between now and when we're one airline), your JCBA by default is your current ATN contract. Enjoy it, you may be working under it for a while!

The alarmist stuff like this is getting kind of old and is one of the reasons almost all the AirTran pilots disengaged on this forum last month and why the only people left debating on this board are non-AAI pilots.

I don't see why people insist on antagonizing their future coworkers. Leave it to the Merger Committees to work out.

 

[ivauir]

The alarmist stuff like this is getting kind of old and is one of the reasons almost all the AirTran pilots disengaged on this forum last month and why the only people left debating on this board are non-AAI pilots.

Lear,

"Alarmist" cuts both ways. For months this forum has been full of your coworkers pot stirring and attempts to affect expectations. It seems pretty unabated to me, but I've pretty much checked out of this SWA bash fest, so maybe my impression is inaccurate.

I don't see why people insist on antagonizing their future coworkers. Leave it to the Merger Committees to work out.

Agreed. But you ought to have the same opinion when "certain" frequent AAI posters choose to advocate ridiculous and antagonistic positions.

 

[PCL_128]

The problem is that PCL, nor the rest of his MEC, have much control over when (or even if) he and his peeps get to work under the current SWA contract. So to make a slight correction (since the JCBA would cover the time between now and when we're one airline), your JCBA by default is your current ATN contract. Enjoy it, you may be working under it for a while!

You should do a little reading, Lonestart. Start with Section 1.E.2. of the AirTran CBA. It will be enlightening for you.

 

[Lear70]

I understand that in the past couple months some of our guys aggravated yours just as much as some of your guys were aggravating us and I'm glad to see it has calmed down quite a bit, regardless of a few people who keep stirring the pot from time to time.

As far as current events, if you take a look back in this thread, even Ty hasn't said much in the last week or so, the rest of our pilots have pretty much checked out and the only people still arguing are Southwest guys and Johnsonrod and the General, neither of which work for either company.

The other AAI/SWA threads haven't had any posts for almost a week as well and there's not multiple threads going on about it. From my viewpoint, it's calmed down considerably, which I'm thankful for.

Of course, there's PCL trying to insert a little insight to what's going on with the MC's and the Process Agreement, but at least it's not an SLI debate...

Fly safe out there, and have some fun along the way!

 

[Ty Webb]

I've been silent because there hasn't been much to respond to. By now, pretty much everything has already been said. I don't even bother responding to LoneStar-esque provocations anymore, what's the point? They're so ridiculous, there's nothing there to talk about.

I have confidence that both MC's will give it their best shot and will work it out as best they can.

In the end, it will be up to all of us to accept it and move forward. As Mark Twain observed, "Most folks are about as happy as they've made up their mind to be".

Regds,
Ty

 

[redflyer65]

I'm confused. Where is the JCBA language? Just thought there was a transition agreement between SWAPA and Southwest.

 

[RedDogC130]

You should do a little reading, Lonestart. Start with Section 1.E.2. of the AirTran CBA. It will be enlightening for you.

Is this from the new contract or the one prior to sept 27th the snapshot date? I will bet you which one the arbitrators will look at

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Sy-bill]

After observing both the SWA pilots and Airtran pilots going back and forth with this transaction, it is clear that there is much room in the middle that both will accept. I still believe that arbitration would favor SWA and that relative seniority is not a possibility. Likewise the other extreme of a staple of Airtran pilots is just as equally not a possibility. My guess is that an agreement with both unions will be made with date of hire with some seat and base protection language.

If or when this happens, this could be looked out as the gold standard of how two airlines integrate their seniority lists fairly.

The next year will be interesting to see how this all settles.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, Sybill, you done using my old avatar yet, or what? :laugh: