Airtran Pilots

[FDJ2]

Soon SWA will be a tremendous boost in your career. And you have the balls to come on here and consistently antagonize the ones handing you this golden ticket? I continue to contemplate how big of an idiot does this type of thing.

You're not handing him anything.

 

[Ty Webb]

SWA is only spending 300mil on this ACQUISITION. To bring it down to your level of understanding, it is only a "compelling opportunity".

Seems that you don't understand the transaction, my friend. It may be a corporate acquisition, but it is a merger of seniority lists.

Soon SWA will be a tremendous boost in your career. And you have the balls to come on here and consistently antagonize the ones handing you this golden ticket? I continue to contemplate how big of an idiot does this type of thing.

Although I may sport an outsized codpiece, I didn't "come on here" and do anything. I've been on this board since 1996.

It looks to me like you're the one who "came on here" to make your displeasure known about the merger. . . . .

 

[madjack]

Ty,

No one is disputing the fact that AAI brings "something to the table" in this merger/acquisition, why else would GK want to buy it...it has been said here that SWA pilots are cocky, but the same can be said about AAI pilots...neither AAI or SWA PILOTS brought anything to the table but their 98.6 degree farenheit butt cheeks...the corporate guys came up with this idea, they are worried about losing the culture...let's use that to our mutual benefit...

We cannot penalize the SWA pilots with relative seniority...since SWA has the better contract, seniority will be only thing SWA pilots can gain...that is the way it is...so AAI guys are going to lose seniority, sorry but there is NO WAY your 1993 hire is going to be right behind our 1977 hire...will not happen...there is absolutely NO precedence for that...read the NWA/DL award...the super senior were untouched, everything else is negotiable...Hey the corporate guys came up with this great idea...they desparately want to keep the LUV machine alive....simple: throw $$ our way...I have said before that if I stay a 10 year FO at SWA when the dust settles on the SLI, I will be happy if I am paid CP wages to do so...(i.e 717 training fence keeps me out of CP seat)...

 

[FDJ2]

Ty,

No one is disputing the fact that AAI brings "something to the table" in this merger/acquisition, why else would GK want to buy it...it has been said here that SWA pilots are cocky, but the same can be said about AAI pilots...neither AAI or SWA PILOTS brought anything to the table but their 98.6 degree farenheit butt cheeks...the corporate guys came up with this idea, they are worried about losing the culture...let's use that to our mutual benefit...

We cannot penalize the SWA pilots with relative seniority...since SWA has the better contract, seniority will be only thing SWA pilots can gain...that is the way it is...so AAI guys are going to lose seniority, sorry but there is NO WAY your 1993 hire is going to be right behind our 1977 hire...will not happen...there is absolutely NO precedence for that...read the NWA/DL award...the super senior were untouched, everything else is negotiable...Hey the corporate guys came up with this great idea...they desparately want to keep the LUV machine alive....simple: throw $$ our way...I have said before that if I stay a 10 year FO at SWA when the dust settles on the SLI, I will be happy if I am paid CP wages to do so...(i.e 717 training fence keeps me out of CP seat)...

The SWA pilots are not "penalized" by maintaining their current system bidding power. While the AAI pilots may make contractual gains, those gains are not at the expense of the SWA pilots. What you are suggesting is that SWA pilots be allowed to gain a seniority windfall on the backs of the AAI pilots, due to this merger. That isn't going to happen.

As for the comment that the "super senior" were untouched with the DAL/NWA acquisition/merger, that's simply not true. They were treated just like everyone else, integrated via a category/status ratio. Effectively as it happened at AWA/US acquistion/merger.

I'm not suggesting that a straight relative seniority integration will occur, but it will most likely dominate the integration. Possibly some adjustments for longevity/retirements and manning formulas (maybe), but this isn't a very complex large network integration like AWA/US or DAL/NWA. Here we are dealing with two profitable LCC airlines, flying effectively similar gauge equipment on similar routes (granted AAI does fly international).
JMHO

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

No one is disputing the fact that AAI brings "something to the table" in this merger/acquisition, why else would GK want to buy it...it has been said here that SWA pilots are cocky, but the same can be said about AAI pilots...neither AAI or SWA PILOTS brought anything to the table but their 98.6 degree farenheit butt cheeks...the corporate guys came up with this idea, they are worried about losing the culture...let's use that to our mutual benefit...

We cannot penalize the SWA pilots with relative seniority...since SWA has the better contract, seniority will be only thing SWA pilots can gain...that is the way it is...so AAI guys are going to lose seniority, sorry but there is NO WAY your 1993 hire is going to be right behind our 1977 hire...will not happen...there is absolutely NO precedence for that...read the NWA/DL award...the super senior were untouched, everything else is negotiable...Hey the corporate guys came up with this great idea...they desparately want to keep the LUV machine alive....simple: throw $$ our way...I have said before that if I stay a 10 year FO at SWA when the dust settles on the SLI, I will be happy if I am paid CP wages to do so...(i.e 717 training fence keeps me out of CP seat)...

I posted some published comments made by Gary Kelly. I posted them for the few people that don't appreciate what AirTran brings to the table.

I am not saying anything about SLI expectations, so why are you? :erm:

 

[Ty Webb]

The SWA pilots are not "penalized" by maintaining their current system bidding power. While the AAI pilots may make contractual gains, those gains are not at the expense of the SWA pilots. What you are suggesting is that SWA pilots be allowed to gain a seniority windfall on the backs of the AAI pilots, due to this merger. That isn't going to happen.

As for the comment that the "super senior" were untouched with the DAL/NWA acquisition/merger, that's simply not true. They were treated just like everyone else, integrated via a category/status ratio. Effectively as it happened at AWA/US acquistion/merger.

I'm not suggesting that a straight relative seniority integration will occur, but it will most likely dominate the integration. Possibly some adjustments for longevity/retirements and manning formulas (maybe), but this isn't a very complex large network integration like AWA/US or DAL/NWA. Here we are dealing with two profitable LCC airlines, flying effectively similar gauge equipment on similar routes (granted AAI does fly international).
JMHO

It's pretty sad that a Delta guy has to explain to one of my fellow pilots that his comments undercut his own pilot group. I'm betting "madjack" also voted yes on TA3 and voted no to recalling our "Useful Idiot" LEC Rep, as well. :laugh:

 

[Secret Squirrel]

TY, It is pretty sad that you have to come on these threads and oPen your mouth on a daily basis. You sure do know it all don't you. It is too bad that you are probably the Public face of the Airtran Pilot group. Every one of yOur posts have made the friendly integration of our groups harder.

 

[Ty Webb]

TY, It is pretty sad that you have to come on these threads and oPen your mouth on a daily basis. You sure do know it all don't you. It is too bad that you are probably the Public face of the Airtran Pilot group. Every one of yOur posts have made the friendly integration of our groups harder.

Pretty tough words coming from a guy who has made 120 posts on the subject since September. 120 posts over 4 months equals . . . . . a post a day.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/search.php?searchid=2633834&pp=25

Got an issue? Grab a f#%^$^& tissue. :laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

If wn had bought virgin america- which posted a profit- most would say that couldn't be a ratio integration-
So when does the line get crossed to consider AT getting a ratio? Less than 1/4 our size- much lower profits, and much lower pay.

And the big question: if delta had bought AT how many delta pilots would be arguing for a ratio?

 

[FDJ2]

If wn had bought virgin america- which posted a profit- most would say that couldn't be a ratio integration-
So when does the line get crossed to consider AT getting a ratio? Less than 1/4 our size- much lower profits, and much lower pay.

And the big question: if delta had bought AT how many delta pilots would be arguing for a ratio?

How many A320 captain positions does Virgin America bring, how many A320 F/O positions do they bring. The fact that they are smaller doesn't mean that you're entitled to their captain seats or their first officer upgrades to those seats. There might be an issue with retirement/longevity adjustments, but the main factor is the seat brought to the merger.

If DAL had bought Airtran we'd have to consider how many narrow bodied Captain positions and F/O positions they brought vs how many narrow bodied captain and first officer positions Delta brought to the merger. We'd also have to consider how many wide bodied seats Delta brought that AT didn't. That dynamic doesn't exist in a SWA/AT merger, it did with AWA/US, where the category/ratios were started after the widebodied positions had been accounted for.

The common theme here from the SWA pilotsseems to be that since SWA is bigger, or because SWA acquired AT, or because SWA has a better contract today then AT, that this should drive the SLI and is more relevant than the system bidding power. It isn't.

Like I said before, while the AT pilots will likely see contractual improvements, those improvements are not at the expense of the SWA pilots, whereas the seniority windfall that some SWA pilots are expressing as somehow fair, due to these contractual improvements, or SWA larger size (insert self serving rationale dejure) are at the expense of the AT pilots.

 

[scoreboardII]

The fact that they are smaller doesn't mean that you're entitled to their captain seats or their first officer upgrades to those seats.

This works both ways.

the main factor is the seat brought to the merger.

Patently false. Your spot on the revised seniority list is what the SLI is about, not your seat. The "list" gets you the seat, not vice versa.

those improvements are not at the expense of the SWA pilots,

No true. The SWAPA pilots contract gave the company exactly what they wanted, stagnated pay and benefits so they could hord cash to buy AT. SWA pilots and every employee "helped pay" for AT.

 

[Ty Webb]

The SWAPA pilots contract gave the company exactly what they wanted, stagnated pay and benefits so they could hord cash to buy AT. SWA pilots and every employee "helped pay" for AT.

Oh, Lord . . . .

If that's the case, then the AirTran pilots' lower pay bought their airframes, the seats in 'em, and the earth under 'em. :laugh:

 

[FDJ2]

This works both ways.
Patently false. Your spot on the revised seniority list is what the SLI is about, not your seat. The "list" gets you the seat, not vice versa.

No true. The SWAPA pilots contract gave the company exactly what they wanted, stagnated pay and benefits so they could hord cash to buy AT. SWA pilots and every employee "helped pay" for AT.

There is no reordering of a seniority list, when I say the seat brought to the merger it is the number of captain and first officer seats, not the person who necessarily occupies that seat.

Your second point/rationalization even if it were true is not relevant in an SLI.

 

[jonjuan]

The SWAPA pilots contract gave the company exactly what they wanted, stagnated pay and benefits so they could hord cash to buy AT. SWA pilots and every employee "helped pay" for AT.

Puff, puff, give. You sound like Kelso from "That 70s show" (while wearing his helmet).

 

[ASADFW7]

FDJ2 SWA has no widebody, and you are correct in many of your points. SWA guys have a limited perspective because of all the smoke blown up our ... However this turns out, maybe the smoke will clear in the end, and we won't be such pricks for no reason. Maybe will just be dicks like the rest of the industry.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

?????

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

To all the Airtran pieces of (fill your own words in here) who do you think is responsible for our contract! Oh and by the way the Acquisition is costing SWA 700 million in cash and approximately 700 million in stock. We are also acquiring a little over a billion of your debt. So please quit saying you guys are bringing anything to the table. We are buying Atlanta plain and simple. Hey look at the bright side even a whore can be bought!

 

[S3sundowner]

Ok, there's been plenty of talk about who brings what to the table. What it boils down to is $$$ in your pocket. Obviously, the aai guys are getting huge raises, ie money in their pockets. That is their gain. Now, can we list what the aai pilots are putting in the swa pilots' pockets to make this "fair and equitable". Hint: gates in atl or caribbean flying puts $0 in a swa pilots pocket.....

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

It's just frustrating that you guys are getting a great boost to your career and you refuse to acknowledge that the SWA pilots have anything to do with it. I say now after reading these post we should start out with a staple.

Here is AAI's rebuttal.

Your honor those Southwest pilots are trying to staple us that is not fair, I know we are getting 40% more in pay, extra vacation, get to work for a more stable company, more days off, get along with management, and so on!

I know your honor, but it's just not fair!
Can you believe that is all Southwest is offering us, and they have the balls to ask for a little seniority! Damn them SWA pilots

 

[Ty Webb]

Waaaaah! Waaah!

Look at the bright side . . . You'll get to fly with me. :beer: