Airtran Pilots

[General Lee]

That's true. The SWA contract says that negotiations have to take place for the 717 pay rates and international operations. Besides those kinds of items that are unique to the new part of the operation, the SWA contract is the one that will continue.

Good. The SWA contract is currently the best one out there, so hopefully you will be a part of it. Watch out for the 717 rates, though. That plane is the same size and does similar missions as the 735, and if that plane pays the same as the 737-700, then the 717 should too. (or darn close) Good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[texman]

That's true. The SWA contract says that negotiations have to take place for the 717 pay rates and international operations. Besides those kinds of items that are unique to the new part of the operation, the SWA contract is the one that will continue.

I will say that 99.9% of us at SWA want same pay on the 717 as the 737. Not one person that I have talked to, say any different. So hopefully that helps to ease fears.

 

[GuppyWN]

Of course I do.

Some of you guys think you know a lot more than you really do.

See you on line.

Somebody knows something cause you've sure clammed up lately.

Gup

 

[General Lee]

You have got to be kidding me General Lee. This is the worst logic I have seen WRT an SLI. First of all, we will not negotiate to have AAI pilots at our pay rate until they are SWAPA members. That won't happen until the SLI is complete. Second, the logic is absurd. Just because after the SLI AAI pilots get our contract does not mean we are all equal WRT pay and work rules for SLI purposes. If that were true there would never be a need to arbitrate, ever. B/M would have just stated that relative seniority is the required method for an SLI. It did not because pay and career expectations are factors to be considered by an arbitrator(s).

I noticed you never responded to my post regarding wide body pay and why that would matter in an SLI. I didn't think you would. Career expectation is not a "seat" or "aircraft type" it is pay, pure and simple. Everyone knows this, despite arguments to the contrary.

In spite of all that General Lee, I think you are fantastic too.

Ummm, what? The reason to arbitrate is SENIORITY. That is the purpose of a (wait for it) S, L, I. You know what those mean, right? Seniority allows you to bid for trips, upgrade, vacation. It is important, and that is best left to a neutral (arbitrator for you Texas guys). A joint contract is necessary FIRST because it can take away some of the STING of the SLI. If everyone gets a payraise, maybe you won't be too mad at seeing the AT 717 FO getting one spot in front of you on the list......

It happened at DL/NWA, but did not happen that way at USAir. Which do you want? GK WILL NOT GET THE SYNERGY PROFITS if one side is mad. Nope. Why should the mad side do anything extra? They are MAD. Look at USAIR. Not sound logic, eh? You need to wake up and look at reality. A joint contract FIRST takes away some of the STING you will get. Too bad the SWA guys won't be getting large raises (just like the DL guys), but a stronger company is always a plus! You can't argue with that logic, now can you? Nope.

As far as widebody pay at the DL/NWA merger is concerned, it was not an issue. There were newhires at DL on the 767 in NYC that were paired up next to DC9 FOs at NWA. It was all based on RELATIVE seniority, and some of those DC9 FOs at NWA promptly bid NYC 767ER FO and got a HUGE RAISE after the merger was complete. The 767 ER FO seat was junior because of INTL reserve rules, but it paid a lot better than any narrowbody at DL. Still, there were NWA guys that lived near NYC that bid it and are happy. The SLI was NOT based off of pay, but rather seat position and relative seniority at the time of the merger. DL had more 757/767 Capt/FOs than NWA, and that figured in to some of it too. The 744 and 777 Capt positions were treated the same, too---equally. Any more questions?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

........

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Somebody knows something cause you've sure clammed up lately.

Gup

His true identity has been making its way around... he's not the only one.

 

[General Lee]

His true identity has been making its way around... he's not the only one.

He will be your Captain. Bank on it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

I suppose its possible, depends on how long he's been at AirTran. If he has 15 years i'd say he might have a shot. Like you said, "not a staple, not relative... something in between"

 

[General Lee]

OK GL so you want to consider what each company brings to the table. Sounds good. As much as ATL is a shining star of all things in the airline world, it is only one city. Frankly, a city with a mega carrier to compete with to boot.

When talking about what each carrier brings to the table I noticed you skipped the part about debt, profits, aircraft numbers, cities served, and market cap. This is not a merger, it is an acquisition. This acquisition is made possible because SWA makes a LOT of money. This is not DL/NW. Not even close.

I still think you are fantastic General Lee.

Thanks for being a part of my fan club. You can be VP, right behind President Ty.

I think you are still in the F9 (Frontier) mindset. F9 was BK, and only brought you more flights out of DEN, a place you were already growing. AT is totally different. AT brings a few things that SWA just can't have on it's own. ATL is the first. There aren't enough gates available, and nobody was giving any up. It is the busiest city in the South, and a mostly fair weather hub (except some snow this Winter), and the facilities are great. You can make a lot of money here if you know what you are doing. But, 25 min turns will be interesting to watch. And, if you pay AT people B-scale wages, you won't get 55 min turns. That is what you have to watch out for.

Next are the DCA slots, and additional LGA slots. You didn't have any lucrative DCA slots on your horizon (unless you gave more pizza parties to lawmakers....), and LGA slots are hard to come by. So, both of those things are a huge plus. You also get some INTL experience (remember your management still doesn't trust you to fly to Mexico, and they would rather Volaris do it), and you get access to many smaller communities that you may never hit because of lack of planes.


So, remember, this aint F9. AT is bringing things to the table, and that will be known by any arbitrator(s), and they will factor that in. That probably means SWA pilots at the top, and then a mixture from there, meaning SWA and AT pilots will be at the bottom of your list. It aint rocket science.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I suppose its possible, depends on how long he's been at AirTran. If he has 15 years i'd say he might have a shot. Like you said, "not a staple, not relative... something in between"

There you go. Finally. Sure, it is a possibility, and you don't know how the arbitrators will rule. I will tell you one thing though, cockiness from any side never helped. It often lead to very hard feelings after the shock wore off, after seeing the list.


Bye Bye---General Lee