Airtran Pilots

[FDJ2]

The first officers of SWA will have longer upgrade times. The junior FO's much longer. That can be considered a huge loss to some people.

Not at all. Their upgrades will proceed on schedule. If you were in the top 1% of F/Os getting ready to upgrade, you'll still be in the top 1% of F/Os. Likewise, if you are in the bottom of the stack waiting to upgrade, you'll still be in the bottom of the stack. The only guys who will see a slower upgrade are the AAI pilots, who have enjoyed faster upgrades than SWA.


SWA pilots have never been furloughed or taken a pay cut. SWA has never experienced a yearly profit loss. They are very strong without Airtran and will not be any stronger. Maybe more profitable but that is a gamble. No slam dunks in the airline business.

Absolutely correct, no slam dunk in the airline business, and its also not a slam dunk that SWA won't eventually post a yearly loss, or furlough.

From your Airtran seat. Not from my SWA seat.

I'm not at Airtran, just a nuetral observer.

That was the whole point that Mack is trying to convey. But the Airtran pilots think that is an arrogant, selfish thought. And there is nothing that can be said to change the minds of the Airtran pilots on this board. The SWA pilots have a different perspective. And I don't personally know one SWA pilot who chooses their schedules based on routes. Isn't "routes" something from the sixties anyways?

I know lots of pilots who choose their schedule based on routes, but I'll concede that at SWA every route must be the same old, same old.

Your point about perspective is valid, it all depends on where you sit. My perspective comes from someone without a dog in the fight.


If I were the carrier being acquired, I would want to think that to.

It doesn't matter who acquired, who in a SLI. The nature of a corporate transaction doesn't allow one pilot to buy another pilots seat just because the BOD at each carrier entered into a transaction. Delta bought NWA, AWA bought US, so what.

Captain Mack is right about the talk around the SWA pilots on the opinions from AT pilots from this forum. When you are not in the room, opinions are not very nice.

Who cares.

I truly do hope this works out well for all of us so we can be one big happy family. So far, not so good.

I hope it works out for you too.

 

[General Lee]

The first officers of SWA will have longer upgrade times. The junior FO's much longer. That can be considered a huge loss to some people.

Not at all. Their upgrades will proceed on schedule. If you were in the top 1% of F/Os getting ready to upgrade, you'll still be in the top 1% of F/Os. Likewise, if you are in the bottom of the stack waiting to upgrade, you'll still be in the bottom of the stack. The only guys who will see a slower upgrade are the AAI pilots, who have enjoyed faster upgrades than SWA.


SWA pilots have never been furloughed or taken a pay cut. SWA has never experienced a yearly profit loss. They are very strong without Airtran and will not be any stronger. Maybe more profitable but that is a gamble. No slam dunks in the airline business.

Absolutely correct, no slam dunk in the airline business, and its also not a slam dunk that SWA won't eventually post a yearly loss, or furlough.

From your Airtran seat. Not from my SWA seat.

I'm not at Airtran, just a nuetral observer.

That was the whole point that Mack is trying to convey. But the Airtran pilots think that is an arrogant, selfish thought. And there is nothing that can be said to change the minds of the Airtran pilots on this board. The SWA pilots have a different perspective. And I don't personally know one SWA pilot who chooses their schedules based on routes. Isn't "routes" something from the sixties anyways?

I know lots of pilots who choose their schedule based on routes, but I'll concede that at SWA every route must be the same old, same old.

Your point about perspective is valid, it all depends on where you sit. My perspective comes from someone without a dog in the fight.


If I were the carrier being acquired, I would want to think that to.

It doesn't matter who acquired, who in a SLI. The nature of a corporate transaction doesn't allow one pilot to buy another pilots seat just because the BOD at each carrier entered into a transaction. Delta bought NWA, AWA bought US, so what.

Captain Mack is right about the talk around the SWA pilots on the opinions from AT pilots from this forum. When you are not in the room, opinions are not very nice.

Who cares.

I truly do hope this works out well for all of us so we can be one big happy family. So far, not so good.

I hope it works out for you too.

Great post. The SWA guys need to read this.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

Who the he11 are you, anyway? I can't quite figure it out. We've all come to expect the General's omnipresence, but at least he somehow commands some respect for his opinions.

Now we have you popping up everywhere, and I can't figure out why your opinion matters. I'm pretty convinced it doesn't.

This from a guy named "boytoy.". Listen, I agree with a lot of what The General states, and I want to fly at his airline too. If that makes me his "little buddy", then sobeit. Please remember also that anyone can give opinions on this board, and if you choose not to read them, then that is your right. You SWA pilots really are closed minded and "in to yourselves.". I will personally enjoy watching how your SLI turns out. It couldn't happen to a better group of jackwagons.

 

[johnsonrod]

Brother I have flown into ATL many times especially to pick up major shareholders and players that have invested into DAL over the past twenty years When KPDK was not a option. But what I have over heard in the cabin and FBO's relation to DAL was not to impressive. Don't think SWA can get some luv in ATL, think different. Let me guess you are a comair or riddle grad?

That sounds like you know very little about ATL. Great, you flew in there a few times on the corporate side. First, you can't just turn an airport into your operation when it is currently overrun by Delta. They have something like 70 percent of the flights there now. For every 1 Airtran 717 that lands, 5 Delt 757s follow it. Airtran has about 1 terminal worth of gates, and Delta has five. You may try to increase the number of flights per day per gates, but the airport volume may restrict that plan. Good luck with that!

 

[Skyboy722]

This from a guy named "boytoy."

Really? This isn't high school.

Listen, I agree with a lot of what The General states, and I want to fly at his airline too. If that makes me his "little buddy", then sobeit. Please remember also that anyone can give opinions on this board, and if you choose not to read them, then that is your right. You SWA pilots really are closed minded and "in to yourselves.".

Look, what I mean is that usually when people have such strong opinions on the subject matter, it's because they are somehow involved or affected by it. "Skin in the game," if you will. Looking at your profile, presumably still being a 145 driver (not knocking it, just concluding that you don't fly for either WN or AAI) I was just wondering how you could possibly feel so strongly that you make statements like:

I will personally enjoy watching how your SLI turns out. It couldn't happen to a better group of jackwagons.

 

[FlyinGuy]

It doesn't matter who acquired, who in a SLI. The nature of a corporate transaction doesn't allow one pilot to buy another pilots seat just because the BOD at each carrier entered into a transaction. Delta bought NWA, AWA bought US, so what.

What does SLI stand for???? Anyone......

Seniority List Integration....not Seat List Integration!!!

If it said SEAT, this would be easier for everyone. So anytime I hear this argument that a AT capt has to stay a capt, I pretty much dismiss anything you have to say. Why, because you are being the same as you are accusing the SWA guys of being...Biased.

There are so many factors that are considered when making these decisions, a "keep your seat" statement is very shallow. I know it makes for great arguments, but it does not take into account every other factor that is involved.

That being said, I know that I will get the typical responses...but just try to keep a little bit of reality in the discussion.

 

[johnsonrod]

Really? This isn't high school.




Look, what I mean is that usually when people have such strong opinions on the subject matter, it's because they are somehow involved or affected by it. "Skin in the game," if you will. Looking at your profile, presumably still being a 145 driver (not knocking it, just concluding that you don't fly for either WN or AAI) I was just wondering how you could possibly feel so strongly that you make statements like:

I have stated on this board already that my father recently retired as a whale captain at Delta, so he obviously was a Northwest pilot. It's been a couple years, but he went through all that stuff too. (I was an ERJ FO at the time).
So, having listened to my Dad talk to his Reps throughout the process, I feel like I have an understanding. As far as the last comment goes, that stems from the unbelievable cockiness the SWA group has on this board, and the total disregard of everything the Airtran pilots and company will bring to Southwest. Really, a lot of you are way over the top.

 

[johnsonrod]

What does SLI stand for???? Anyone......

Seniority List Integration....not Seat List Integration!!!

If it said SEAT, this would be easier for everyone. So anytime I hear this argument that a AT capt has to stay a capt, I pretty much dismiss anything you have to say. Why, because you are being the same as you are accusing the SWA guys of being...Biased.

There are so many factors that are considered when making these decisions, a "keep your seat" statement is very shallow. I know it makes for great arguments, but it does not take into account every other factor that is
involved.

That being said, I know that I will get the typical responses...but just try to keep a little bit of reality in the discussion.

You are right, the SLI will only determine your seniority number, and won't kick you out of your seat. The problem will come when GK decides to move 717s West, or move other planes around. When that happens, your new seniority number will help decide if you can still hold that seat and at which base. There is no doubt Ty will hold his left seat initially throughout the process. But, will he hold it after planes are moved around?

 

[FDJ2]

What does SLI stand for???? Anyone......

Seniority List Integration....not Seat List Integration!!!

If it said SEAT, this would be easier for everyone. So anytime I hear this argument that a AT capt has to stay a capt, I pretty much dismiss anything you have to say. Why, because you are being the same as you are accusing the SWA guys of being...Biased.

There are so many factors that are considered when making these decisions, a "keep your seat" statement is very shallow. I know it makes for great arguments, but it does not take into account every other factor that is involved.

That being said, I know that I will get the typical responses...but just try to keep a little bit of reality in the discussion.

Taking a comment out of context to make your point?

My comment was in response to the ascertion that the nature of a corporate transaction (who acquired who) is germane to the construction of an SLI.

It's not.

Whenever I hear someone say it is, I realize they have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm sure that ultimately the new SWA will do well, but I'm also sure, judging by the comments made on this forum, that there will be many expectations not met by the SWA pilots who post here when all is said and done.

 

[SWA/FO]

You are right, the SLI will only determine your seniority number

You should've stopped typing right there.

 

[johnsonrod]

You should've stopped typing right there.

And you should keep reading from that point. You think SWAPA will be making the rules, and that just won't happen. You thought you could staple pilots, and that was proven incorrect. You think you can create separate entities, but AT's own contract says NO. You really don't know what you are talking about. You are gonna get hosed. This will be fun to watch! What a trian wreck waiting to happen.

 

[GuppyWN]

And you should keep reading from that point. You think SWAPA will be making the rules, and that just won't happen. You thought you could staple pilots, and that was proven incorrect. You think you can create separate entities, but AT's own contract says NO. You really don't know what you are talking about. You are gonna get hosed. This will be fun to watch! What a trian wreck waiting to happen.

Stapling a bankrupt carrier is still a fair deal in my book. Did you know the Frontier pilots arbitration stance was to staple EVERY Republic AND Midwest pilot below the most junior Frontier FO? Didn't think so.

We don't think we can create separate entities and wouldn't want a whipsaw. What "we" are more than willing to do is build a big fence.

Try again boy.

Gup

 

[Quimby]

And you should keep reading from that point. You think SWAPA will be making the rules, and that just won't happen. You thought you could staple pilots, and that was proven incorrect. You think you can create separate entities, but AT's own contract says NO. You really don't know what you are talking about. You are gonna get hosed. This will be fun to watch! What a trian wreck waiting to happen.

You talk a lot.

 

[johnsonrod]

Stapling a bankrupt carrier is still a fair deal in my book. Did you know the Frontier pilots arbitration stance was to staple EVERY Republic AND Midwest pilot below the most junior Frontier FO? Didn't think so.

We don't think we can create separate entities and wouldn't want a whipsaw. What "we" are more than willing to do is build a big fence.

Try again boy.

Gup

Thanks Pops..... In arbitration your lawyers will try to get the best SLI for their team. But, you don't shove it in the other side's face. You will be flying with these people eventually. The NWA pilots went for DOH, and the Delta guys went for straight relative, and it turned out to be a little from both, eventually favoring Delta a bit more. The Frontier guys were also told by Bedford that they would be by themselves, but didn't know about Republic's contract, just like you don't know much about the Airtran contract. It can come back to bite you. And, how would you have a fence and not swap planes around through different hub or focus cities? Would Airtran 737 pilots only fly their own planes? Sounds inefficient, and like a seperate operation, which may not be allowed in Airtran's contract. Also sounds like a B-scale operation, and a culture killer. Not a good plan, Stan.... But I suggest you do it. I bet Delta would approve!

 

[johnsonrod]

You talk a lot.

You are forgettable.