Airtran Pilots

[FlyinGuy]

It doesn't matter who acquired, who in a SLI. The nature of a corporate transaction doesn't allow one pilot to buy another pilots seat just because the BOD at each carrier entered into a transaction. Delta bought NWA, AWA bought US, so what.

What does SLI stand for???? Anyone......

Seniority List Integration....not Seat List Integration!!!

If it said SEAT, this would be easier for everyone. So anytime I hear this argument that a AT capt has to stay a capt, I pretty much dismiss anything you have to say. Why, because you are being the same as you are accusing the SWA guys of being...Biased.

There are so many factors that are considered when making these decisions, a "keep your seat" statement is very shallow. I know it makes for great arguments, but it does not take into account every other factor that is involved.

That being said, I know that I will get the typical responses...but just try to keep a little bit of reality in the discussion.

 

[johnsonrod]

Really? This isn't high school.




Look, what I mean is that usually when people have such strong opinions on the subject matter, it's because they are somehow involved or affected by it. "Skin in the game," if you will. Looking at your profile, presumably still being a 145 driver (not knocking it, just concluding that you don't fly for either WN or AAI) I was just wondering how you could possibly feel so strongly that you make statements like:

I have stated on this board already that my father recently retired as a whale captain at Delta, so he obviously was a Northwest pilot. It's been a couple years, but he went through all that stuff too. (I was an ERJ FO at the time).
So, having listened to my Dad talk to his Reps throughout the process, I feel like I have an understanding. As far as the last comment goes, that stems from the unbelievable cockiness the SWA group has on this board, and the total disregard of everything the Airtran pilots and company will bring to Southwest. Really, a lot of you are way over the top.

 

[johnsonrod]

What does SLI stand for???? Anyone......

Seniority List Integration....not Seat List Integration!!!

If it said SEAT, this would be easier for everyone. So anytime I hear this argument that a AT capt has to stay a capt, I pretty much dismiss anything you have to say. Why, because you are being the same as you are accusing the SWA guys of being...Biased.

There are so many factors that are considered when making these decisions, a "keep your seat" statement is very shallow. I know it makes for great arguments, but it does not take into account every other factor that is
involved.

That being said, I know that I will get the typical responses...but just try to keep a little bit of reality in the discussion.

You are right, the SLI will only determine your seniority number, and won't kick you out of your seat. The problem will come when GK decides to move 717s West, or move other planes around. When that happens, your new seniority number will help decide if you can still hold that seat and at which base. There is no doubt Ty will hold his left seat initially throughout the process. But, will he hold it after planes are moved around?

 

[FDJ2]

What does SLI stand for???? Anyone......

Seniority List Integration....not Seat List Integration!!!

If it said SEAT, this would be easier for everyone. So anytime I hear this argument that a AT capt has to stay a capt, I pretty much dismiss anything you have to say. Why, because you are being the same as you are accusing the SWA guys of being...Biased.

There are so many factors that are considered when making these decisions, a "keep your seat" statement is very shallow. I know it makes for great arguments, but it does not take into account every other factor that is involved.

That being said, I know that I will get the typical responses...but just try to keep a little bit of reality in the discussion.

Taking a comment out of context to make your point?

My comment was in response to the ascertion that the nature of a corporate transaction (who acquired who) is germane to the construction of an SLI.

It's not.

Whenever I hear someone say it is, I realize they have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm sure that ultimately the new SWA will do well, but I'm also sure, judging by the comments made on this forum, that there will be many expectations not met by the SWA pilots who post here when all is said and done.

 

[SWA/FO]

You are right, the SLI will only determine your seniority number

You should've stopped typing right there.

 

[johnsonrod]

You should've stopped typing right there.

And you should keep reading from that point. You think SWAPA will be making the rules, and that just won't happen. You thought you could staple pilots, and that was proven incorrect. You think you can create separate entities, but AT's own contract says NO. You really don't know what you are talking about. You are gonna get hosed. This will be fun to watch! What a trian wreck waiting to happen.

 

[GuppyWN]

And you should keep reading from that point. You think SWAPA will be making the rules, and that just won't happen. You thought you could staple pilots, and that was proven incorrect. You think you can create separate entities, but AT's own contract says NO. You really don't know what you are talking about. You are gonna get hosed. This will be fun to watch! What a trian wreck waiting to happen.

Stapling a bankrupt carrier is still a fair deal in my book. Did you know the Frontier pilots arbitration stance was to staple EVERY Republic AND Midwest pilot below the most junior Frontier FO? Didn't think so.

We don't think we can create separate entities and wouldn't want a whipsaw. What "we" are more than willing to do is build a big fence.

Try again boy.

Gup

 

[Quimby]

And you should keep reading from that point. You think SWAPA will be making the rules, and that just won't happen. You thought you could staple pilots, and that was proven incorrect. You think you can create separate entities, but AT's own contract says NO. You really don't know what you are talking about. You are gonna get hosed. This will be fun to watch! What a trian wreck waiting to happen.

You talk a lot.

 

[johnsonrod]

Stapling a bankrupt carrier is still a fair deal in my book. Did you know the Frontier pilots arbitration stance was to staple EVERY Republic AND Midwest pilot below the most junior Frontier FO? Didn't think so.

We don't think we can create separate entities and wouldn't want a whipsaw. What "we" are more than willing to do is build a big fence.

Try again boy.

Gup

Thanks Pops..... In arbitration your lawyers will try to get the best SLI for their team. But, you don't shove it in the other side's face. You will be flying with these people eventually. The NWA pilots went for DOH, and the Delta guys went for straight relative, and it turned out to be a little from both, eventually favoring Delta a bit more. The Frontier guys were also told by Bedford that they would be by themselves, but didn't know about Republic's contract, just like you don't know much about the Airtran contract. It can come back to bite you. And, how would you have a fence and not swap planes around through different hub or focus cities? Would Airtran 737 pilots only fly their own planes? Sounds inefficient, and like a seperate operation, which may not be allowed in Airtran's contract. Also sounds like a B-scale operation, and a culture killer. Not a good plan, Stan.... But I suggest you do it. I bet Delta would approve!

 

[johnsonrod]

You talk a lot.

You are forgettable.

 

[texman]

That sounds like you know very little about ATL. Great, you flew in there a few times on the corporate side. First, you can't just turn an airport into your operation when it is currently overrun by Delta. They have something like 70 percent of the flights there now. For every 1 Airtran 717 that lands, 5 Delt 757s follow it. Airtran has about 1 terminal worth of gates, and Delta has five. You may try to increase the number of flights per day per gates, but the airport volume may restrict that plan. Good luck with that!

Actually I know a lot about ATL. I flew with a lot of retired check airman and one chief pilot from DAL when they took the early buy out. They talked about how great Delta and ATL was (YGTBFK). I agree you can't turn a airport into your operation. Young man look at the numbers of airplanes Delta has? Now look at the combination that SWA/AT will have. Plus take a look at our high frequency operation at SWA. Once GK takes our new family members and teaches them the SWA way, you will notice how overrun of delta will be a thing of the past. Let me guess your one of those legacy kids, " hey daddy can you make a phone call and get me a job"LOL. I have real world experience in a RJ going to big airports like ATL and LGA or even JFK, Ooooooooooooo!

 

[johnsonrod]

Actually I know a lot about ATL. I flew with a lot of retired check airman and one chief pilot from DAL when they took the early buy out. They talked about how great Delta and ATL was (YGTBFK). I agree you can't turn a airport into your operation. Young man look at the numbers of airplanes Delta has? Now look at the combination that SWA/AT will have. Plus take a look at our high frequency operation at SWA. Once GK takes our new family members and teaches them the SWA way, you will notice how overrun of delta will be a thing of the past. Let me guess your one of those legacy kids, " hey daddy can you make a phone call and get me a job"LOL. I have real world experience in a RJ going to big airports like ATL and LGA or even JFK, Ooooooooooooo!

Wow, you flew corporate with guys who used to fly for Delta. I am so impressed.....not. You probably preferred PDK over ATL because it was easier to follow Cessnas. And GK will "teach" the AT guys your way? If you treat them poorly in this SLI, they won't do crap for you or GK. And how many gates does Airtran have compared to Delta? You don't really know, do you? Not even close. And what about your SLC dominance? Not happening. You just don't have the gates or space, just like ATL. And I do hope to get on with Delta, without paying for a type rating like you did.

 

[birdman1]

Stapling a bankrupt carrier is still a fair deal in my book. Did you know the Frontier pilots arbitration stance was to staple EVERY Republic AND Midwest pilot below the most junior Frontier FO? Didn't think so.

We don't think we can create separate entities and wouldn't want a whipsaw. What "we" are more than willing to do is build a big fence.

Try again boy.

Gup

If this kind of rhetoric continues, than this will turn into something far worse than USAir/AWA. Watch what you post…guys like me are taken notes. Do you want to continue the LUV or start a nightmare?

 

[Crash Pad]

Jrod. If memory serves, I believe you said you don't fly for mother d or aai. Why are you so infatuated and defensive for both airlines? You may have personal career goals, which is natural and apparent, but you don't have a leg in this debate like those that are currently going thru the merger. Flying into atl isn't that hard.

 

[texman]

Wow, you flew corporate with guys who used to fly for Delta. I am so impressed.....not. You probably preferred PDK over ATL because it was easier to follow Cessnas. And GK will "teach" the AT guys your way? If you treat them poorly in this SLI, they won't do crap for you or GK. And how many gates does Airtran have compared to Delta? You don't really know, do you? Not even close. And what about your SLC dominance? Not happening. You just don't have the gates or space, just like ATL. And I do hope to get on with Delta, without paying for a type rating like you did.

What I do know is the departures per day will go up to 300 a day. I didn't tell you about the Delta guys to impress you but to only answer your question that I do know something about ATL and DELTA from the stories they told me. Yea I paid for my type. Did your daddy pay for your school or did you come from a poor family like me? I am grateful for my decision to invest on my type. Keep on building that valuable PIC time so you can get a real job. Oh wait a minute daddy will get it for you. I bet you are one of those guys that start a conversation off " hey I am Jack Wagon and my dad used to fly the 747 at NWA", " do you think I am cool". Or maybe you are one of those tools that post your picks on Face book sporting your RJ.

 

[texman]

Jrod. If memory serves, I believe you said you don't fly for mother d or aai. Why are you so infatuated and defensive for both airlines? You may have personal career goals, which is natural and apparent, but you don't have a leg in this debate like those that are currently going thru the merger. Flying into atl isn't that hard.

Well just like Gen nuts does, J rod is scaaaardddd that his Lovely delta may be affected by little new SWA in ATL.

 

[Crash Pad]

He mentioned 5 75's for every 1 717, that's a 28 mile final! How could one ever land in such conditions!?! Oh the challenge!

 

[27 driver]

He mentioned 5 75's for every 1 717, that's a 28 mile final! How could one ever land in such conditions!?! Oh the challenge!

Flying into ATL is no challenge at all. 10, 15, and even 20 mile finals are normal. ATC tells you how fast to fly, and always give you a good turn onto final. The challenge for LUV will be the quick turns with all the ramp congestion. If any of you don't think they are studying that as we speak you are crazy. LUV will not crush the big D in ATL but sure will be a bigger thorn in their side then little old AAI. Should be interesting to watch.

 

[redflyer65]

How have you guys done against Delta in Salt Lake City? Have you expanded that operation a lot? The ATL airport has some constraints you might not be able to overcome very well. But, you can certainly ask for short approaches. It didn't sound like The General was that nervous......Have you ever been to ATL? The Delta operation there is very impressive.

Statements like this show how uninformed you are.

Wow.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Taking a comment out of context to make your point?

My comment was in response to the ascertion that the nature of a corporate transaction (who acquired who) is germane to the construction of an SLI.

It's not.

Whenever I hear someone say it is, I realize they have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm sure that ultimately the new SWA will do well, but I'm also sure, judging by the comments made on this forum, that there will be many expectations not met by the SWA pilots who post here when all is said and done.

Maybe that is not what you were trying to say, but you said it. As far as your last paragraph.....that is probably the most accurate statement anyone has made. Why, because many SWA pilots see this as a lopsided transaction (perception is reality no matter which side you fall on). Many might be disappointed, but in the end it is up to each individual to determine their own happiness. When it is over....it is over! We must all move on as a new SWA no matter how it ends.