Airtran MEC voted no

[Nindiri]

Still don't see it ha? SC promised to follow the Process Agreement which says that arbitrator's ruling will be final and binding....ooops.

Is the SWAPA argument now saying that SC lied when he made that statement?

 

[On Your Six]

Dear Lear,

I'm afraid the aftermath of AAI's MEC vote in terms of behavior and rendition of the "facts" as described on here and as sold to your members may have more impact on changing sentiments on the SWA corporate side than the vote itself.

CEOs and their unions don't care to have details of confidential meetings "spun" to suit the audience. I'm sure this storyline is or will be floating in emails at the GO by now or certainly by tomorrow. Particularly if the party doing the spinning is the invited guest to the party.

I'm afraid lines are being drawn in the sand and little room will be left to wiggle as well as time will eventually slip away.


While arbitration is most likely from here on out IMHO, as one of our chief negotiators just posted on our forum GK and SWAPA signed the PA knowing there are still options available to SWA management if circumstances arrive that would keep our culture intact. I don't know what those are but I never underestimate GK and his team in coming up with solutions to problems.

I use to think that only a furlough could permanently damage our culture; that sentiment was universal. I might add to that and GK may add to that after this is all over, "mergers with ALPA carriers".

It will be "purely" a business decision on the part of SWA if circumstances play out that result in no integration or common SLI. I hope your pilots will be as

gracious in accepting such an outcome as you and others have asked us to accept the 7-1 vote of your MEC. It will be purely business and for the best
interest of SWA to not go through with it IF that turns out to be the path chosen. Please don't say it is fear mongering; it is merely a "business decision".

I'm less optimistic than I was previously on our future together but will wait to see what the pilots/employees of SWA say to GK over the next few weeks and how GK responds.

For those who think Wall Street will punish SWA for not going through with the deal, Wall Street doesn't get most of what SWA is all about anyway and the price of the stock doesn't reflect that but regardless, the latest email from
SWAPA confirms the tone has changed within SWAPA and apparently SWA also.

Would Gary take a quarter or two of losses to keep our culture intact? I would bet my 401K and future on it. It would rally our employees like nothing else which has been created by your MEC. Unintended consequences my friend; I certainly have no crystal ball and as I have said previously, the only way to

insure 100% that AAI pilots would be on the SWA seniority list was by passing SL9. It wasn't and now we are all left to wonder, "what is next?"

Hope you have a good week flying. Congrats on the upcoming nuptials and spend more time with your son instead of on here!!!

This sounds like Civil War time! This really is getting intense. I just don't think GK will pull that trigger, merger integration in other departments is underway, and there is that Process Agreement. This is gonna be a roller coaster, hang on!



OYS

 

[Flycatcher99]

I already pointed out several SWA pilots confirming it on this board. And, of course, it was all over the SWA pilots' board.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised at SWAPA making such a tactical blunder and painting themselves into this corner. They had to know they couldn't deliver on such a promise, so why did they make it?

You named a couple of names. So what? Show some posts. Last time I'll ask.

And how do you know what's on the SWA forum? Which forum are you referring to?

Swapa never made any such claim, or declared any expectation of SLI. In any venue. You're either a complete moron if you think that swapa ever made such a prediction, or else you're nothing more than a two-bit flamer.

 

[Nindiri]

This sounds like Civil War time! This really is getting intense. I just don't think GK will pull that trigger, merger integration in other departments is underway, and there is that Process Agreement. This is gonna be a roller coaster, hang on!



OYS

Why did Chase delete his post that you quoted?

 

[Nindiri]

You're either a complete moron if you think that swapa ever made such a prediction, or else you're nothing more than a two-bit flamer.

This is the sort of anger and rage that I've been seeing here lately, and it's the reason why I asked my original question about the reaction of SWA pilots and if they will be willing to shake hands and move on after the integration.

 

[scoreboardII]

This is the sort of anger and rage that I've been seeing here lately, and it's the reason why I asked my original question about the reaction of SWA pilots and if they will be willing to shake hands and move on after the integration.

No anger, no rage, just unemotional business decisions for your side from here on out. Apparently you AT guys like it that way.

Shake hands? Sure, once the deals done, can you say the same?

 

[Bake]

When all business is said and done, I will shake hands with you. But not til then. There are a few of you on the AT side I will gladly shake hands with now. They know who they are and not all of them would have voted "yes" on SL9. But you, not til it's over. Keep posting Nindiri.

Baker

 

[Bake]

Ty and Lear, thanks for being gentlemen. I know we have all been emotional, pissed etc. Us/You and we have said things we probably regret. However, gentlemen nonetheless. Thanks guys.

Baker

 

[Lear70]

Ty and Lear, thanks for being gentlemen. I know we have all been emotional, pissed etc. Us/You and we have said things we probably regret. However, gentlemen nonetheless. Thanks guys.

Baker

It's been my pleasure, amigo. Great talking with you through all this and I'm just gonna bow out from posting for a while. No good can come from continuing the back-and-forth we all tend to get sucked into sometimes.

On the other side, I'm buying, no matter HOW the list shakes out. :beer:

 

[Bake]

I hear ya my friend. Emotion rules us all at some point or another. We must be aware of that whether it be fear or hunger. We all have it, we all live it, and it will become known. I'm as guilty as the next. I wish the best for us all and those that shall come after us.

 

[On Your Six]

Why did Chase delete his post that you quoted?

Good question.


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

The impasse is simple-
AT wants more relative seniority- but your group is so much younger, that to give more creates more harm for Swa pilots than is acceptable.

So now it comes down to leverage and who has it.

Any list that can be implemented will be distasteful to AirTran pilots- and the onus has always been on you to focus on ALL the positives that will be happening to you if you get on the Swapa list. There are a lot of positives- but it's just not mathematically possible to receive the seniority you want without severly hampering the careers of Swapa pilots for the next 20 years.
It's the demographics of the two groups.
Interesting times- and business is business. There will be no emotional games. We're pilots. There's no crying in flying. And definitely no fistfights in the crew rooms. I'll buy the beers- and we can lay it aside and handle our formidable and consequential business like grown men and women.

Ndiri- no staple was ever promised that's just dumb. But a certain amount of your junior will be stapled. That's not a "staple" and you guys can rule yourself up all you want- but it's just reality. My guess is that if you get another shot at an integration, even more will be found at the bottom of the list.
And guess what? That's a pretty good place to be. Life doesn't suck anywhere on the list. Don't forget that or about the 8000 applications on file hoping and praying for just that.
G'night

 

[Nindiri]

No anger, no rage, just unemotional business decisions for your side from here on out. Apparently you AT guys like it that way.

Shake hands? Sure, once the deals done, can you say the same?

Sure, I'd love to shake hands and go to work as one team. I'll even be honored to buy the first round at the bar if we should happen to fly together.

But I'm concerned about some of the other SWA pilots here. Just yesterday, one of them was threatening to burn the house down if he didn't get exactly what he wanted in the arbitration and integration. That attitude doesn't bode well.

 

[Bake]

and you are just like him.

 

[Nindiri]

Well, so far, Bake, SWA pilots here have threatened me, called me a moron, and given crude and vulgar suggestions complete with pictures about what I can do. If the worst you are going to do is refuse to shake my hand, then I think we're going to get along just fine.

 

[Bake]

and what have you done?

 

[Nindiri]

Me? Well, certainly none of the above offenses.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Fudgepacker,
Your either in awe of Michelle Bachmann or taking pointers on her technique which explains your community college mentality. I'll bet you live in San Fran?

You are an embarrassment to SWA pilots everywhere. Name calling and homophobia. Is that all you got?

Now SWA pilots clearly have a bigger problem on their hands, having backed themselves into this unfortunate corner. Obviously, any arbitration award is going to be less favorable to them, so the question is how will they react as the inevitable integration continues and they have to fly with their new coworkers. Are they willing to shake hands and move on, or will they poison the culture and work environment, as some of them have threatened on this board?

I'm betting on the first option. You have a MINORITY of shrill spoiled brat SWA f/os posting here. And Mr. Kelly will slap down any of his pilots who try any flight deck b.s. He has to. The airline rep will suffer if he doesn't.

I'm concerned about the SWA pilots, though. Virtually all of them on the boards here are threatening to poison the culture and create a hostile environment, even if it hurts their own company. It's almost an obsession with them, with several of them posting about how they wish ill fortune on the AT pilots. Very disturbing. At some point, if they continue this nasty spiral out of control, I'm afraid that GK will have to address the problem.

He will.

You may not call it a corner, but SWAPA has clearly left itself no good options. Having promised a staple that they can't deliver, they now have an angry mob of SWA pilots to deal with.

Get the ProStans committee up to speed!

Yes, they definitely promised a staple, or near staple. SWA pilots have made that clear on this board.

Why did SWAPA make such a reckless promise?

Pandering to their junior pilots. Its over now.

SWAPA never promised us a staple, in fact, they didn't even try to get one.

Are you serious? Did you read the AIP?

If you want an idea of just how much the majority of pilots dislike ALPA, just insert HITLER in place of ALPA in any sentence.

Ah, Godwin's Law. The last refuge when your argument fails.

Okay, we will staple you.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

 

[Bake]

So, you have promoted unity? You want this to work and let seniority be bygones? Whichever way it may fall? Dude, look, I have been flamboyant too. I'm not knocking ya down, just realizing that sometimes we beat on the people we would probably get along best with. No harm, no foul. Let's all just be kind with one another. That goes for me too. Take your jabs, I will take mine, and then let's move on to something better.

Excuse me please: Except Tom Dean. I don't like him and will never excuse his dream. While probably intelligent, he lacks backbone.

 

[scoreboardII]

and given crude and vulgar suggestions complete with pictures about what I can do.

wait a minute, you have pictures and aren't sharing? Thats not nice!