Airtran MEC voted no

[Fly-By-Cable]

Ask how it worked out for SWA captains who left for United in '99.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Originally Posted by GhettoBeechjet
The MEC wasn't voting on wether they thought the offer was fair they were voting on wether they thought they could get MORE in arbitration..


Excuse me. I did not know you were a mind reader. Why are you a pilot then? More money in mind reading.

Did you talk to any AAI LECs even?

Ah the demonization and propaganda begins.

I doubt I will ever say anything more to any AAI ALPA leader more than "would you like the before start checklist sir?" I'm no mind reader but I would assume the criteria that they would use for any deal would be can we do better and if so at what risk. I don't know why they would have rejected the deal if they didn't think that they would do better in arbitration. Contrary to what you believe no one at SWAPA was thrilled with this deal. The only thing it had going for it was that it was probably better than the alternative. Now I guess we all get to find out.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Nothing is guaranteed in this industry, not pay, not stability, not job security, nothing except your seniority number. SWAPA understands it as was obvious in the proposal. Today's vote shows you that ATN MEC understands that as well.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Ask how it worked out for SWA captains who left for United in '99.

Poorly because United's balance sheet was already upside down. They had a great contract and the company was making money but on an unstable base. That isn't the case at SWA.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Nothing is guaranteed in this industry, not pay, not stability, not job security, nothing except your seniority number. SWAPA understands it as was obvious in the proposal. Today's vote shows you that ATN MEC understands that as well.

I disagree. retirements are guaranteed in this industry. I have said from the beginning that I didn't expect a gain from this deal but I did expect not to lose. Well the deal on the table would have done that and it wasn't enough for your side. If this abitration follows the normal precident the AAI pilots will gain all of the upward movement from the SWA retirements at the expense of the SWA F/Os. Simple you win I lose. With a large number of relatively young pilots about to be placed in front of me my upgrade gets pushed to NEVER. That happened to very few AAI pilots in the AIP. Forgive me for being pissed but my career value took a much larger hit than my 401k today.

 

[waveflyer]

How do you AT pilots figure out the problem of your youth without getting many of your FOs at the bottom?

Sorry- but everyone can sling mud and get personal, but it's mostly a demographic problem. How many captains there aren't 40yo yet? I'm not wworried so much about what happens to you now, but what happens to my entire career with so many guys who are younger than me going above me on the list. And I was in the back row in class.

You have to take the seniority hit. That's the only way the math works. No swa guy is going let you guys get disproportionately senior for decades just to give you relative now. If you think you'll get better in arbitration, then you don't understand leverage or our management.

 

[On Your Six]

OYS The offer was worked out between the AAI MC and SWAPA. It wasn't just a SWAPA offer as you would like to paint it. The Airtran MC must have thought it was fair or they wouldn't have signed off on it. The problem is that arbitrators ideas of fair and equitable don't seem to jive what most non lawyer types consider reasonable. The MEC wasn't voting on wether they thought the offer was fair they were voting on wether they thought they could get MORE in arbitration.
Congratulations it's a huge day for you. You were right and the rest of us were wrong. I will most likely spend the rest of my career as an F/O which will cost me $500,000 in lost income. Bet that makes you really happy.

Looks like the AT MC wasn't intouch with the AT MEC or the pilot group in general. The MC felt the pressure from SWAPAs team, but the pilot group did not. On to arbitration I guess? And try to remember that you aren't stuck at SWA forever. If you don't like your eventual spot, you can always apply somewhere else. Sure, I was right so far about many things, but it is your job to make sure that you yourself are happy. Godspeed!


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

Btw- I find it funny that the Gulfstream example was used when PCL was one AND HE IS AN ELECTED ALPA OFFICIAL(!)- Who has the GSA guy as a union leader?: not Swapa.
An ardent no voter who would still be retiring #2 on the list.

That's the kind of greed we're dealing with.

 

[Flying the Line]

It is not just AAI pilots saying there is a problem here. It is a lot of piers watching this go down in the industry.

BTW, there is still "say" here in this process for both groups. Don't just sit, and let things happen around you.

I wish you guys luck too in this. I really mean that. Sincerely.

Stop using the word piers, that refers to a structure like the Santa Monica Pier. I think your looking for peers.

 

[scoreboardII]

$287,000 a day mistake

By voting no, AT pilots collectively lost $285,000 per day come Apr 2012.

Thats: $2 million a week. $8 million a month, $100,000,000 a year.

A tenth of a billion dollars lost forever each year it takes to get over to the canyon blue side.

Tell that the women folk.